Against new class hall pets!!

[Graven]

In MoP and WoD with time, luck, and a visit to the AH it was reasonably possible to get all the pets in those releases. In Legion with Order Hall pets, PvP Prestige pets, a million gold pet, the very low drop rate of the Knock-off Blingtron, and now Lagan being uncageable collecting all the Legion pets became a huge time sink (if any Devs are reading this, grinding does NOT equal content). If we are asking for the goalpost to be moved it is to back where it was instead of the stadium parking lot. Of course with the possible addition of new PvP Prestige pets and the new Order Hall pets it is the Devs moving the goalposts again. Only this time to a shopping mall parking lot in the next county.

Just had to quote this post because it hits the nail right on the head. We aren't asking for easier goals, just ones that aren't hugely out of whack from previous expansions. It's not just an issue with the class hall pets, but the way they now handle pet collecting as a whole.

[Uduwudu]

My first reaction when I saw this topic was - Wot?
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Blizzard has tried to do something in this XPac which I commend them for. Putting the Multiplayer back in the MMO. For a long time I have been a one stop shop.
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Time out. A bit of history here, since I think this is not exactly the situation, although the idea of all abilities being allowed to be added/max'd seemed to be one of the things that helped us all a lot, in Legion, these have completely been taken out and down, although you can easily use the Garrison's stuff to help improve/upgrade your levels in many a category, like Jewelcrafting and all that.

The multi-player thing is from somewhere else, and a bit of history might help. I'm not sure that all the "professions" being linked has much to do with the player base itself, but I think it might have been a reaction to the over use of the AH to sell anything that was related to the profession, instead of it being used. Now, you do not find a hundred potions in the AH like you used to.

The "multi-player" was more of an excuse for Blizzard to admit that the number of players was not quite there to support a reasonable economy.

If we go back almost 18 years, and use EQ as an example, they had 25 servers (just a number) and each of these could handle about 2500 players at any one time and hopefully not all on at prime time, as it would hurt the connections, and raids badly. The lag, was insane! Move forward a few years and the numbers dwindled and some servers "came together", and the real story was that the number of players had dropped severely, and the "virtualization" started. The equipment improved a bit, and now the server could handle 3000 players, but it was two servers combined, not one alone. A year later, it was 3. A year later 5 servers, and the game was almost over by then.

Blizzard's "virtualization" is the same thing, and a way to ensure that an economy can survive, with one exception. One AH does not handle just that one server ... it handles more than one, and anyone can buy things. That was a major issue about each server's economy way back when, and now that machines are vastly superior and can handle more players as connections are better, and almost no one plays on Dial-Up, this is hardly an issue and noticeable. This virtualization also "hides" the populations, and its residences, which are now just another small partition in the middle of nowhere.

It also hides the number of players ... they might say they have 4 million players but are not telling you that one million of those are not "active" or "paying" accounts anymore and are just sitting there, and some folks come and go thinking of Michelangelo! My apologies TS Eliot!

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But the underlying part to this is Blizzard saying that you can't have it all. You have to make some decisions.
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old Phish concerts - mostly collecting dust now. I learned along the way that it's more important to appreciate what you have than stress over what you don't.
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Now I have a chance to grind out something that suits my playstyle. And we have to move the goalposts to suit collectors? I don't get it.

That's just it ... the goalposts are being moved because there is no leadership at Blizzard, and they figure that they can sell you some really good poop, from Door 3 of course (Firesign Theater!), and you will like it, because it is really good poop!

[Drudatz]

In my opinion its shows that the "devs" these days are .... that dont PLAY wow at all anymore on the contrary to the dudes who developed wow back in the days and that they just dont care about the players anymore.

[Guest]

I think having a pet per class is fine imo, but having three gated behind three very long grinds that would be a tall order on your main, let alone an alt, is silly. I can't see what their goal is here besides giving incentives for people to play all day and subscribe the longest like its their job.

[Uduwudu]

In my opinion its shows that the "devs" these days are .... that dont PLAY wow at all anymore on the contrary to the dudes who developed wow back in the days and that they just dont care about the players anymore.

Many of those at the start were some really fine folks from EQ, that did some amazing things. One of them was a Bard in the Mithaneal Marr server way back when, and he had numbers, let me tell you ... he knew his game and then some.

Things have changed since, and, when the mass exit of players left EQ, the great players and gamers also left, and pretty much went to WoW, the only game around that was worth some fun. AND, it had some humor, which EQ developers (at the time) did not have and share with the players ... as evidenced by WoW having a lot of funny stuff from names to dumb quests, which are fun to do, even if you are tired and sick of the game!

Oh, only one thing missing ... a broom and a shovel for my hands ... I miss that on my Bard, and carrying them around during a mass wipe in a raid of 75 people ... that was about the only fun in EQ.

Time sinks ... you have no idea. In the old EQ, there were the "three sisters" and one of them dropped the parts you had to have for your top gear ... and you pretty much had to camp that sister, for a month, and still not have a drop ... it was horrific. I'm very glad that WoW, at least, took care of that, because it added so much frustration to the game, and stopped more people from continuing than it did anything else.

I'm just not sure, that one pet for each class, is going to be that big a deal/change in the whole of the Pet Battle thing. heck, I have my doubts that any of those pets will even make the bottom 20 in this website! Now that would be a surprise, hey?

[Jazeel]

Surely the elegant solution to the DK drama would be to make that vendor appear in any class hall once your toon has met the requirements, this would avoid the grief it is currently causing to pet collectors, would be an incentive for people to keep working on their mains, hell they could add other items, cosmetic, toys etc too.

[Badpathing]

I love the DK class hall change.

I welcome more challenge to pet collecting.

I stand by my previous comment that the only objectionable pet grind so far is the cross faction prestige; you should only have to do the prestige grind once.

Bring on more pets for classes I say!

[Quintessence]

Surely the elegant solution to the DK drama would be to make that vendor appear in any class hall once your toon has met the requirements, this would avoid the grief it is currently causing to pet collectors, would be an incentive for people to keep working on their mains, hell they could add other items, cosmetic, toys etc too.

This is a very interesting idea! Of course this would defeat the purpose of trying to get players to try out different classes and experience each class campaign.


Side note: Additional thoughts on the DK/Monk pets and how there are prerequisites within prerequisites.

Plus new information on how the Rogue class pet will be obtained (thanks to @Nemo2342 on Twitter for testing on the PTR).

http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=16692&p=133427#p133427

[Paladance]

Other possible prerequisites for Crackers: maxed out Artifact Knowledge (level 25), but not 100% sure on this one.

That will sound painful, but isn't it 40 since then?

[Quintessence]

Other possible prerequisites for Crackers: maxed out Artifact Knowledge (level 25), but not 100% sure on this one.

That will sound painful, but isn't it 40 since then?

Sorry, that's poorly worded. I meant that there might be a Rogue prerequisite of AK 25 (the current, pre-7.2 max) prior to getting the quest to increase your AK even higher. Will have to test this to see if that's the case.

It's even possible that AK may not even be a factor, and you might be able to continue the Rogue campaign even if you don't complete the AK quest line.

IMO relative to DK/Monk pets, I'd say the Rogue pet seems much more reasonable to obtain. Still fairly gated, and probably still very much a long-term goal for some.

Edit: Would seem that you do not get the quest to increase your AK past 25 if you are not already at level 25 AK. If this quest is a requirement for advancing the Rogue campaign in 7.2 then AK 25 is a prerequisite for the pet.

[Quintessence]

I stand by my previous comment that the only objectionable pet grind so far is the cross faction prestige; you should only have to do the prestige grind once.

I'm curious Badpathing, if there *had to be* a compromise on this, what would be acceptable for you?

Would you be ok with everything staying the same with DK/Monk pets, except for the part where we must learn all traits? In this hypothetical scenario, we'd still be required to empower our weapon(s), but there wouldn't be a requirement to unlock all artifact traits.

Or is this really an "all or nothing" type of situation for you, where any change from the pets' current iteration would seem a poor design choice? (I'm genuinely curious where you would draw the line here.)

I'm also curious why you think the grind for the PVP pets on both alliance and horde is so different from the grind for AP on different classes. Both are relatively mindless collecting of honor (for PVP) and AP (for the weapon).

Sure, you're doing it on different classes for the AP, but it's not as if collecting the AP provides any notable class lore or fantasy IMO. If you want a unique class experience, I think the campaign is the best way.

I collect AP from the same WQs on a few 110s currently, and there's nothing extraordinarily different each time other than pushing different buttons. The goal of the WQ is the same. The result is the same for every toon I do it on.

By your logic, a grind that is mirrored across factions is not ok, but a grind that is pretty much mirrored across (two) classes (and in the case of the DK, mirrored across 3 weapons) is? To me, it's a pretty similar gating method.

If you don't agree that AP and honor grinds are similar, I'd love to hear why exactly (just to get a better understanding of your point of view).

[Desi]

Graves was a piece of cake compared to this, a much quicker grind. It took me a couple of weeks with only doing a couple of games per night, whereas I can't even predict how long the new class hall pets will take.

So you got into HotS. Great. Lot of us didn't, hated that stupid game cause we don't like that kind of thing.

So now if you want a Class-Specific pet that you don't want to do, seems fair.

I didn't actually say that I enjoyed HotS. I completed the games required to achieve the pet and my comment above is purely comparing the grind involved.

[Badpathing]

I'm curious Badpathing, if there *had to be* a compromise on this, what would be acceptable for you?

Would you be ok with everything staying the same with DK/Monk pets, except for the part where we must learn all traits? In this hypothetical scenario, we'd still be required to empower our weapon(s), but there wouldn't be a requirement to unlock all artifact traits.

Or is this really an "all or nothing" type of situation for you, where any change from the pets' current iteration would seem a poor design choice? (I'm genuinely curious where you would draw the line here.)

I'm also curious why you think the grind for the PVP pets on both alliance and horde is so different from the grind for AP on different classes. Both are relatively mindless collecting of honor (for PVP) and AP (for the weapon).

Sure, you're doing it on different classes for the AP, but it's not as if collecting the AP provides any notable class lore or fantasy IMO. If you want a unique class experience, I think the campaign is the best way.

I collect AP from the same WQs on a few 110s currently, and there's nothing extraordinarily different each time other than pushing different buttons. The goal of the WQ is the same. The result is the same for every toon I do it on.

By your logic, a grind that is mirrored across factions is not ok, but a grind that is pretty much mirrored across (two) classes (and in the case of the DK, mirrored across 3 weapons) is? To me, it's a pretty similar gating method.

If you don't agree that AP and honor grinds are similar, I'd love to hear why exactly (just to get a better understanding of your point of view).

Fair questions and I appreciate your curiosity.

To me, the pvp grind is a combination of a few things. For one, it forces players into two different factions, which isn't in my opinion always an o.k. design choice. Another concern is that it crosses into the pvp realm from a primarily pve activity. To be honest, as much as I don't like those two things I'm still OK with them..I firmly believe that variety is the spice of...well..pet collecting.

However, the grind is significant. Months significant. And it completely lacks creativity. For that single reason, I object to it. There really is no difference in the two pets and the grind. It's just, painfully redundant.

Comparing it to the class grinds, I guess I see it differently. I would claim it is a different sort of grind (despite the redundancy you point out across classes) simply because of how AP works. You can pretty much grind it out any way you like; hell, you can even do it passively through order hall missions. I know it's the same goal; max out a weapon, but I still don't see it as the same activity the way I do when looking at the prestige pets.

Or perhaps, the fact that I am alt-crazy just makes me blind to it.

Ultimately, I think a cancer on this game is the entitlement a lot of players feel and a disregard for the other player. WoW has worked for so many years for a lot of reasons, and one of them certainly being that it has many different carrots. There is no contract stating that pet collectors are a very specific type of player who want it a very specific way. When things like this happen, I see it as an opportunity for players to try new things.

And if you hate it, think how good it's going to feel to actually collect the pet. To EARN it.

I felt GREAT when I got the 250 pvp pet wins pet as I loathe pet pvp.

*edit* as for the compromise question..

I haven't thought much about it. I don't like merging it across all classes as was suggested earlier as I think the pets have some relationship to the class currently (theme-wise) and it would break that to make them "any class" eligible.

I am sure there is a compromise, but I don't have one and since I am pretty happy with the current iteration, I don't see myself looking for one either.

[Quintessence]

*edit* as for the compromise question..

I haven't thought much about it. I don't like merging it across all classes as was suggested earlier as I think the pets have some relationship to the class currently (theme-wise) and it would break that to make them "any class" eligible.

I am sure there is a compromise, but I don't have one and since I am pretty happy with the current iteration, I don't see myself looking for one either.

That's understandable. Having them purchasable account-wide would take away from the goal of experiencing the corresponding class.

I think many collectors are very willing to try out different activities, especially if it involves collecting a battle pet. But some feel the DK/Monk pets are bordering on requiring a full main switch, rather than just trying a different class/alt.

So for me, one compromise I'm leaning toward the most is remove the AP grind, but keep the rest. We would still need to complete the class campaign, mount quest, empower the weapon(s), etc. However the AP grind is something that's not necessary IMO.

[Badpathing]

As a followup thought, since you are trying to see my perspective, I'll spell it out plainly since I haven't really done so.

I was a hardcore raider for years, but then I got married..had some kids...bought a house..etc. It's a pretty familiar story to a lot of people. Since the change to my habits in game, I have turned to things like pets, mounts, toys and achievements as a way to be 'competitive'. For that reason, I welcome the hard-to-attain pets and mounts and the like.

So I want challenge. I want creativity. I don't, however, want lazy grinds.

I should also add that things like cageable pets are very much to my advantage as a collector. I have a good job, and tons of in game gold. I'm not trying to brag, simply stating that when things like that come along it's very easy for me to buy them. I just don't want to get them that way, is all.

[Uduwudu]

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I was a hardcore raider for years, but then I got married..had some kids...bought a house..etc. It's a pretty familiar story to a lot of people. Since the change to my habits in game, I have turned to things like pets, mounts, toys and achievements as a way to be 'competitive'. For that reason, I welcome the hard-to-attain pets and mounts and the like.

So I want challenge. I want creativity. I don't, however, want lazy grinds.

I should also add that things like cageable pets are very much to my advantage as a collector. I have a good job, and tons of in game gold. I'm not trying to brag, simply stating that when things like that come along it's very easy for me to buy them. I just don't want to get them that way, is all.

I second this idea ... somewhat in the exact situation in terms of the game although mounts do not interest me much for some reason.

[Peterc]

So I want challenge. I want creativity. I don't, however, want lazy grinds.

Of course 'one mans challenge and/or creativity is another mans lazy grind'

For example if I understand Prestige correctly then if PVP is your thing (it's not mine) then it is not a grind at all just an extra reward for doing BGs, Arena etc.

My concern has become that pet rewards are being used for deeper and deeper content. There should be one or two of these an expansion but we seem to be getting them almost every patch.

Peterc

[Badpathing]

So I want challenge. I want creativity. I don't, however, want lazy grinds.

Of course 'one mans challenge and/or creativity is another mans lazy grind'

For example if I understand Prestige correctly then if PVP is your thing (it's not mine) then it is not a grind at all just an extra reward for doing BGs, Arena etc.

My concern has become that pet rewards are being used for deeper and deeper content. There should be one or two of these an expansion but we seem to be getting them almost every patch.

Peterc

I fully acknowledge the subjectivity of my statement. However, you cannot argue that grinding 2 pets identical in all but model in a cross-faction, pvp-fashion is the same as tying in multiple unique pets to class order hall objectives.

Those are different models.

I don't feel like it's a subtle difference, but maybe it is and I'm just too close to the issue. Regardless, I'd rather have the cross-faction redundancy than a cageable pet. Again, subjective, but I feel that way because I think diversity in the context of pet-collecting is healthy.

[Peterc]

100% the PVP grind should not be needed on both horde and alliance to get the rewards - one should be enough. But for me a 'season' 2 pet (at least they are not Battle pets just vanity) shouldn't have been added and defiantly not a Season 3 or 4 etc..

I have a least one of each class so am monitoring with interest what actually happens. One of the keys will be what further catch-up mechanics come into play.

I am also interested in where this ends and how these will be obtained in future expansions, particularly for new players.

Peterc

[Adumbledore]

I'm curious Badpathing, if there *had to be* a compromise on this, what would be acceptable for you?

Would you be ok with everything staying the same with DK/Monk pets, except for the part where we must learn all traits? In this hypothetical scenario, we'd still be required to empower our weapon(s), but there wouldn't be a requirement to unlock all artifact traits.

Or is this really an "all or nothing" type of situation for you, where any change from the pets' current iteration would seem a poor design choice? (I'm genuinely curious where you would draw the line here.)

I'm also curious why you think the grind for the PVP pets on both alliance and horde is so different from the grind for AP on different classes. Both are relatively mindless collecting of honor (for PVP) and AP (for the weapon).

Sure, you're doing it on different classes for the AP, but it's not as if collecting the AP provides any notable class lore or fantasy IMO. If you want a unique class experience, I think the campaign is the best way.

I collect AP from the same WQs on a few 110s currently, and there's nothing extraordinarily different each time other than pushing different buttons. The goal of the WQ is the same. The result is the same for every toon I do it on.

By your logic, a grind that is mirrored across factions is not ok, but a grind that is pretty much mirrored across (two) classes (and in the case of the DK, mirrored across 3 weapons) is? To me, it's a pretty similar gating method.

If you don't agree that AP and honor grinds are similar, I'd love to hear why exactly (just to get a better understanding of your point of view).

Fair questions and I appreciate your curiosity.

To me, the pvp grind is a combination of a few things. For one, it forces players into two different factions, which isn't in my opinion always an o.k. design choice. Another concern is that it crosses into the pvp realm from a primarily pve activity. To be honest, as much as I don't like those two things I'm still OK with them..I firmly believe that variety is the spice of...well..pet collecting.

However, the grind is significant. Months significant. And it completely lacks creativity. For that single reason, I object to it. There really is no difference in the two pets and the grind. It's just, painfully redundant.

Comparing it to the class grinds, I guess I see it differently. I would claim it is a different sort of grind (despite the redundancy you point out across classes) simply because of how AP works. You can pretty much grind it out any way you like; hell, you can even do it passively through order hall missions. I know it's the same goal; max out a weapon, but I still don't see it as the same activity the way I do when looking at the prestige pets.

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And if you hate it, think how good it's going to feel to actually collect the pet. To EARN it.

I felt GREAT when I got the 250 pvp pet wins pet as I loathe pet pvp.

I think the PvP grind is a bit ridiculous as well. To get the Dutiful Gruntling/Squire is going to take many months to do unless you're a dedicated PvPer. Then to have to do it on the other faction is completely ridiculous. The first set of prestige pets isn't that bad since you can do the towers each day and get a decent amount of honor. To have to get to the higher prestige levels on 2 factions though? For 2 pets? Not so cool.

I also think that the grind is extremely long and uncreative. However, I see any grind as long and uncreative. To me, a grind is a grind no matter the resource involved. In my eyes, grinding AP is no different than grinding honor. Both take a long time (though, admittedly honor takes longer) and the ways of acquiring said resources lack imagination. World Quests can only differentiate so much from each other and once you've completed them 10x+ each, you really start to resent having to do them. Dungeons and raids go the same way. After having killed Xavius 10 times, you really start getting into the mindset of, "Ugh! Do I really have to go and kill him again for some AP?". There needs to be more, new creative ways of obtaining the resources required for earning pets. Dare I say it? Perhaps some pet battle-related content to earn these resources?

Still, the AP grind isn't my biggest complaint with how these new pets are acquired. It's all of the extraneous content that you need to complete to get the pet. For example, I fail to see how the mount stuff relates to my pet. Sure, it's more class-related stuff, but it's just more that's delaying me from getting my pet that much faster. To me, it's a bunch of pointless fluff with no real reason for it to be there. Now if I had to have flying to go save my pet from a demon on a mountaintop somewhere or something like that, then I could almost see a purpose for it being there, but even then I'm not sure I would.

I agree that people should earn their pet. Actually earn it, not just get it handed to them. Then they will have a sense of accomplishment about doing so. What they have in store for them now, though, I feel warrants no such thing. Speaking for myself (if I decide to go for these pets), after accomplishing everything that they're asking, I'm going to ask myself, "All I get is a battle pet?". No character power increase (unless absolutely no one else earns all of their artifact traits, which will never happen), no piece of epic or legendary gear to help, nothing. Just a battle pet. That's quite a lot of content you need to clear in order to get said battle pet.

Will everyone feel the same way I do? Of course not. There will be people who feel a sense of accomplishment over earning their pet, and I would not deny them that. God knows, they certainly earned it. I just don't think that I would feel the same way about it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

*edit* as for the compromise question..

I haven't thought much about it. I don't like merging it across all classes as was suggested earlier as I think the pets have some relationship to the class currently (theme-wise) and it would break that to make them "any class" eligible.

I am sure there is a compromise, but I don't have one and since I am pretty happy with the current iteration, I don't see myself looking for one either.

That's understandable. Having them purchasable account-wide would take away from the goal of experiencing the corresponding class.

I think many collectors are very willing to try out different activities, especially if it involves collecting a battle pet. But some feel the DK/Monk pets are bordering on requiring a full main switch, rather than just trying a different class/alt.

So for me, one compromise I'm leaning toward the most is remove the AP grind, but keep the rest. We would still need to complete the class campaign, mount quest, empower the weapon(s), etc. However the AP grind is something that's not necessary IMO.

I think that's my biggest problem with all of this. It's going to practically require that you switch mains just to obtain a battle pet. Seriously? Don't get me wrong. I'm all for doing more content to earn your pet(s). As long as the amount of content required stays within reason. To basically require a main switch for a pet is beyond ridiculous. Legion is already pretty alt-unfriendly. What is their intention for these pets? Who is the audience that they are targeting them towards? Do they want people to get the pets for their main class only and none of the others? (Barring the current ones which are so easy to get, that it's kind of sad.)

Like Quint, I'm not asking for a complete overhaul of the acquisition requirements for these pets. Just trim them here and there so that we can accomplish them and get our pets in a reasonable amount of time. 3+ months of grinding on a toon that I would rather not be grinding on doesn't sound enjoyable to me. I'm sure it does to some people, I'm just not one of them.

As a followup thought, since you are trying to see my perspective, I'll spell it out plainly since I haven't really done so.

I was a hardcore raider for years, but then I got married..had some kids...bought a house..etc. It's a pretty familiar story to a lot of people. Since the change to my habits in game, I have turned to things like pets, mounts, toys and achievements as a way to be 'competitive'. For that reason, I welcome the hard-to-attain pets and mounts and the like.

So I want challenge. I want creativity. I don't, however, want lazy grinds.

I should also add that things like cageable pets are very much to my advantage as a collector. I have a good job, and tons of in game gold. I'm not trying to brag, simply stating that when things like that come along it's very easy for me to buy them. I just don't want to get them that way, is all.

This. So much this. I think a lot of the pet battling community is wanting more challenge and certainly more creativity. Blizz just needs to implement it. Family Familiar was a good challenge to undertake and I would like to see more of that kind of stuff in the future. Pet battle dungeons are also another creative way of having pet battles, but I think that there are ways of improving there as well.

If anyone would like to start a thread on more ideas for Blizzard for pet battles and pet battle-related stuff, please do so. If not, I'll go ahead and do it. Lord knows I have plenty of ideas.

So I want challenge. I want creativity. I don't, however, want lazy grinds.

Of course 'one mans challenge and/or creativity is another mans lazy grind'

For example if I understand Prestige correctly then if PVP is your thing (it's not mine) then it is not a grind at all just an extra reward for doing BGs, Arena etc.

My concern has become that pet rewards are being used for deeper and deeper content. There should be one or two of these an expansion but we seem to be getting them almost every patch.

Peterc

I fully acknowledge the subjectivity of my statement. However, you cannot argue that grinding 2 pets identical in all but model in a cross-faction, pvp-fashion is the same as tying in multiple unique pets to class order hall objectives.

Those are different models.

I don't feel like it's a subtle difference, but maybe it is and I'm just too close to the issue. Regardless, I'd rather have the cross-faction redundancy than a cageable pet. Again, subjective, but I feel that way because I think diversity in the context of pet-collecting is healthy.

I agree in that comparing the two isn't something to argue. In the case of the prestige pets, you're grinding the exact same things for your pets, in exactly the same manner. You're just doing it on 2 different factions. At least in the case of the DK (which is about as close as you could get to arguing on that point), you have different options (albeit not many) in how you eventually earn your pet.

I'd rather not have cageable pets or cross-faction redundancy for the prestige pets. I'd rather that they go the way of the Moonkin Hatchling and change so that you can use whichever one is assigned to the faction you're on. Then you only have to grind out the prestige once. I mean, let's be honest. Very few people are going to grind out the prestige on both sides. Even among pet collectors. It's just too much. Grinding it out on one faction, though, isn't asking for the world and (in my mind, at least), is much more of a reasonable requirement.


TL;DR: We all may disagree with each other on how to earn these pets and that's fine. Healthy discussion gets everything out in the open and gives everyone perspective into other people's thoughts and ideas. No one is really "right" in this instance and no one is really "wrong". It's just a bunch of opinions flying around. I think (or would like to think) everyone here is grown up enough to admit that everyone is entitled to their opinion and to respect those opinions even if they don't agree with what you think or how you feel. I mean, in the end, we're all after the same things. More pets, more pet battle-related content, and more people to enjoy it with.