WarcraftPets Forum

Hi,

(I'll apply it to Pets a bit further down)

Came across this, and I wanted to post it because the information that was given/shared was incorrect, and it must have been perceived by a kid, rather than a seasoned player, who knew better, and had some history with the game. On one of the boards there was a comment that the programmers at Blizzard were really happy with the process they created to get you to be able to fly in Legion. And the discussion was about how so many players were happy, they did not have to pay for the Flying, and instead played for it.

This was distorted so badly it's not funny. Blizzard, a while back, and as far back as Pandaria and the like, decided that paying for flying was not a good idea, and that you had to earn it ... why? EASY. Many folks were simply going to the internet, spent $20 bux and got the 10K they needed and got the Flying. Blizzard set a mark on stopping that, and they did ... by the time Legion came out, the whole thing was so huge that it was difficult to get to fly, and some of us did and others did not, and there is not, ANYWHERE, a really good track record of the number and (even) a sequencing of the quests needed to that you could achieve your Glorious Campaign. for example, my neighbor, got stuck as a Hunter, and it took me over 3 weeks to find what he was missing, mostly because almost ALL the ADDONS out there, now, are merely repeating what is already available in different colors ... long is the Quest addon, that listed all the quests in a zone, and you could see the ones you had already done, in order to find out what is missing for you to finish the sequence, and get the Achievement (Icecrown's number of achievements was huge and difficult to track!) ... and now, it was virtually impossible because some of the folks doing these addons, did not have the foresight to realize how these could help ... at all!

My only issue with the kid's comment, was that he thought the programmer was being up front and honest about the whole situation, when the history of the ability to fly, suggests completely otherwise, and Blizzard finally tied it up 100% to your playing ability and time. If you are dedicated enough, you will fly ... if you are a casual player ... you are not going to guy it! End of story. And the quote from the programmer was so obviously sidestepping the chance to get caught in that story ... let me just say that it was not Steinbeck, or Hemingway! It was Andy Warhol, drunk!

I believe that the same type of thing will eventually happen to ALL pets in Pet Battles ... you will have to play for them, and it might hurt the market for them, as less and less pets are available for the Auction House, even though more folks are Pet Battling than ever.

So get ready to battle more ... I doubt that we will be seeing many more pets that can be sold in the AH in the future. My only thought at this time is ... is Blizzard considering killing the AH in the future? And my thoughts are that it might not kill it, but it will hinder it severely.

There's hardly anything prophetic here, it's already happening. If you think about it, the "play more" paradigm already applies - Look at Order Hall pets (DK in particular), or achievements like Poor Unfortunate Souls or Family Familiar. Those do require some commitment and time investment, certainly more than flying. And as far as "buying things for a lot of money from a vendor" goes, which is closest to the former requirement for flying, look at [pet]Celestial Calf[/pet].

I agree that they are removing the AH as a source of pet farming. It is now down to doing the achievements or getting the reputation yourself. This is somewhat more frustrating as they added rng pets with low drop rates that could not be sold. I'm not liking that. Those with poor luck end up punished more than others.

There were some pets to buy for gold off the reputation vendors this time. There was the 1million gold pet Knockoff Blingtron and one raid pet could be sold on AH.

Mostly it is up to you to do the stuff or get lucky or both. I just can't run 10 mains in this expansion. Too rate limited. You really have to pick what pets you are going to go for and which ones you won't.

While surely each company has guidelines that are regularly presented to the employees, I don't think there is a specific mindset that everyone could follow wholeheartedly. I don't want to say that there are camps of some sort that watch out of each other with a constant vigilance -- rather the other thing, that there is no person who is supposed or able to cover 100% of the features.
Now, in Legion, some achievement-related pets were wrongly assigned a tradeable flag and it took pretty long until it was addressed. There still have been being added pets and other quirks that can be obtained pretty easily -- some even too easily for my taste -- to not make any list let's say that there belongs almost any pet with an expected AH price below 500g.

The mounts however, on the other hand…

What I can see more is an assumption -- on the blue side -- that each player is ready to eventually focus on every aspect of the decorative items collecting, whether these are pets, mounts, toys or transmogs, because not the type of item would be important, but other details, e.g. theme: someone wanting to explore the fire motifs would create a mage/shaman/warlock, mount several available creatures, summon often companions as Searing Scorchling or Sunfire Kaliri, collect all bonfires, etc. I'm not saying that this approach is right or not -- I'm against reducing pets to a pre-MoP state but other than that, each to their own -- but I try to look for a possible explanation.
I guess that this would have been an outcome of statistics coming from other games such as Diablo, HotS or Hearthstone, whose business model is indeed shifted towards impacting a player by more direct means, to say it politely, and basing several features on single phenomena. An understandable need, but not necessarily the best exploration and conclusions.

Im the kind of pet battler/collector that doesn't buy or trade pets at all. My rule is to have everything in my collection collected by my own accord from drops. Yes this means there is a huge load of pets I won't ever have and yes it also means that I spend ages farming for something I can buy for 4 k off AH. I just like having stuff as "my own" originally, not from someone elses effort and RNG. So this wouldn't bother me at all.

I simply can't run my monk, DK and rogue through the entire Class Hall stuff, part 1 and 2, and in the case of the DK, get all three weapons maxed for those pets. I've tried. My rogue is sitting at 104 and I fear that's where she's going to stay. My DK and monk... I can't play them. I don't like the changes. I don't enjoy how they play. So making myself go through all that is not going to occur, at least not this expansion.

If I try to take any one of those classes into the necessary group content to finish off those questlines, I'll end up being kicked for being bad. I'm really frustrated and saddened by that, but it is what it is. Those pets will be added to the not collecting filter and I'll just hope other really neat pets are forthcoming from the new pet battle dungeons.

What I find seriously grinding my gears is that the classes I do like playing, my hunter, and my pallie... No pets. It's like I can't win for losing.

I am a bit on the weird side ... I doubt I will play this game full time, like I used to, and the only thing I have been able to enjoy the past couple of years has benn the Pet Battles and related material.

So that meant that flying was going to be really hard to finish off ... but since Part 1 was almost all done, it was easier than I thought and not as frustrating, and all I needed to get to was the faction with the Legion, more than anything else. Luckily I was doing a Shaman as main, anyhoodle, and no complaints there.

The Class Hall thing, I think is done by many different folks, even though 2/3'rds of the quests are almost all the same, just in different color. Honestly, I did not expect to get a pet related to my class, which I have a tendency to think is a bit weird ... so we all get a doggie that looks the same, just a different color and has the same abilities as the worst pet in your collection? Not worth it ... and if it comes it does, and if doesn't, no loss or tears on my part. Oh wait ... the girls get a cat, not a doggie ... this way things are not so testosterone enhanced as this game comes off half the time!

What is weird and bothersome, is taking on the 3rd weapon, and then having to top it off, until all the artifact bits are filled ... and at the end, you supposedly get something ... a kick in the butt, not a Pet! Luckily the Shaman has a giveaway pet done fairly early (if they have not changed it), but I am seeing if it is worth topping off my Mage ... I'm kinda tired of the squishyness and the mobs in my eyes, ears, nose and butt ... specially 2 or 3, and you can't move or add more buggers to the whole thing.

But my hunter, and my neighbor (plays a Hunter main), does not have a pet off it. And he just finished things off this week and is now flying. So, no pet for him!

I think that disparity is scary for many folks ... that's not to say that the Class Hall Pet should be done at the same spot as everyone else ... let's say ... finish topping off the 2nd weapon (the artifact stuff is easy to get!) and then you have one battle and you gain the pet. Something similar would be fair, and I am not sure that anyone would get bothered for it, but how about a Druid ... I have to do 4 weapons ... and still have nothing to show for it? Not me ... I will top off healing and balance ... forget the rest!

As for the call of buying something or not, for me, the only pets left to get are the ones in the AH that list over 6 or 7K ... and in most cases they are way too far down to be able to get it done ... like I need to park a character in Sporeggar and keep at it, until I can't stand the Naga anymore! Might just be easier to buy it, but so far I have not.

Not sure that Blizzard can address the flying thing or the Pet thing properly, without making a commitment to how much one plays (SPECIALLY when their own folks DON'T play!) ... used to be the harder you did it, the better reward it was ... but that is no longer true anymore and has not been for some time, and I think the Pet situation is still being evaluated ... now I have to make time to go do the Pet stuff in Timeless Isle and then the stupid Pet Dungeon! I hate being "forced" to do something!

Comparing unlocking flying to pet collecting is a real apples and oranges thing.

Although most players don't want to admit it, flying makes large portions of the game trivial. You can simply fly around, swoop down on your intended target and bypass a lot of the obstacles that were set up for you. So many people play this game and there are a ton of guides for just about every quest. Short of structuring quests like the Darkmoon races, it's the only way to keep content from being devoured in a matter of days.

The only pets that have to be "earned" are a few class hall pets. The vast majority are easily available or hidden behind RNG. Albino Buzzard finally dropped for me yesterday after doing the daily for what seemed like forever. But as long as you don't feel the need to have every pet now, I suspect that backtracking and collecting the class hall pets will be easy enough after the xpac is done.

Everyone has their red line. I would much rather work for pets in this game than have the cross promotional pets. I'm not interested in Starcraft or Hots. And I'm not going to buy or play those games to get a pet. /shrug

Harpooha wrote:Comparing unlocking flying to pet collecting is a real apples and oranges thing.

Although most players don't want to admit it, flying makes large portions of the game trivial. You can simply fly around, swoop down on your intended target and bypass a lot of the obstacles that were set up for you. So many people play this game and there are a ton of guides for just about every quest.
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I disagree. They are both following a path that leads to not allowing any players to buy much of anything, up to and including the gear, potions and elixirs and many other items, that used to be very normal to find in the AH. Now, these are so heavy in the burden to get done, that you almost can not afford to be giving these away or sharing them with any one but your secondary characters.

Again, I am not in total disagreement with the process. There is a side of it that is right, the full time and those that play more, will get to fly, and the part timers will have a hard time doing so. Those that play more, will get the benefits and various Pets ... those that can't ... won't!

Simple economics!

Sadly, this is the same process that killed EQ way back when, when it decided it was going to feed the folks that were hardcore gamers, and ignore the rest of the players, many of those that had families and work to deal with and homework that was piling up, if not house cleaning. That, essentially meant that a bunch of players were frozen out of the chance to advance in the game, and eventually, the number of hardcore players will diminish, because another game came up and was better ... well, for now at least, most games out there are really poor by comparison, but they said the same thing towards the 5th year of EQ and on the 6th year, WoW showed up, and EQ began falling apart, with many of its well known players and folks went to work at Blizzard.

To maintain a large number of players, you have to make sure that the hardcores and the part timers, stick around and pay for the game ... but not allowing these part timers to have a chance at flying, and then various Pets, because they simply do not have the time to play that much to get 1436 quests done (so to speak!), then you have, effectively, shut out a sizeable portion of your folks that can play online ... start counting the days before things go south, and one of the next expansions fails miserably and Blizzard's only possible solution is to fire 42 programmers that were involved in it!

And then TRY to get folks back ... which more than likely won't happen in large quantities ... most of us, by then, will say done that ... ciao baby! As would you!

The solution, has to be ALL INCLUSIVE ... not EXCLUSIVE ... of many players that do not play as much as Blizzard wants you to. It's almost like they are banking on your sticking around because your girlfriend can get herself a cute pet from the Shop Store ... and not give a darn about the rest of the game. And you know, that this is not likely to happen, and if it does is strictly a minority ... and yes, that pet is quite good looking and I bought one for my grandmother, and she loves it, specially the color!

So, if some pets are, then, in the AH, so what? And the same for upgraded and better gear, almost all of which has been removed from the AH for the past 4 to 5 years ... when before, the players dominated the AH with gear, not Blizzard, making it impossible for you to "gain" ... from the AH ... which is the real issue ... takes away those farmers, that really created some bad issues for the past several years. However, that could easily be solved with an ability to only be able to get one of them per account ... so if you sell it ... you're done ... but no ... they have to punish everyone else that can't play enough to gain anything! Which is quite wrong!

Uduwudu wrote:If you are dedicated enough, you will fly ... if you are a casual player ... you are not going to guy it!

Are you actually saying that flying is hard to get in Legion? That's rubbish. Time-consuming maybe but certainly easy enough for anyone to get, even casual players.

As far as pets go, I am GLAD that they have added pets that are hard to get/require working towards! The class pets are fantastic as I love a challenge and a goal and they've given me that for sure. I'm pretty hardcore as pet collecting goes and I will do anything that is required to get all the pets. This game SHOULD BE play to win and not buy to win. I'm the same as Hobbitpolitics above, in that I seldom buy pets off the AH, even though I can afford to. I don't feel I've earned them that way.

tldr: I like the direction Blizz have gone with flying and I'm happy that pets are going the same way.

The AH is and continues to be an integral part of the game. While i can follow the OP's train of thought up to a point, I think it's odd to conclude from some minor changes in availability of items (pets, in this case) that clearly they're thinking of altering or removing the whole system. Throughout the history of WoW, there have been items that are available only to people lucky enough to find them themselves (BoP). Just look at many mounts, or all those burning crusade recipes that drop BoP and thus require you to run instances yourselves. The only reason there may be some confusion recently is that a few pets that were BoE/cageable were reverted into not being tradeable, and this was mostly a bug-fix because achievementpets are not intended to be bought.

I understand that, as a casual player, the idea of completing some of these achievements seems like a daunting task. However, I feel like blizzard actually put in a lot of effort making most of the conent accessible to all kinds of players (I'm not saying everyone will see -all-the classhall stories, but you'll see your mains, at least, and get that mount). The class hall quests take time, that's true, but they are even made (with time-gated quests and class hall missions) so that they shouldn't be completed in one marathon session. Just playing a handful of hours a week or even month should keep you progressing through the world and eventually towards flying. I personally thought that the current achievements required for flying are almost too easy, but thats my own two cents.
Blizzard has been kind of back and forth about the whole flying thing, i agree that they should be more clear on that. But flying just makes content so easy, just think of all the treasures that require some platforming, or nooks and crannies that wouldnt be discovered if we had just zoomed over them in the sky. The whole reason they put in the achievements, is so that at least on one of your toons you should experience the zone as intended, and then on alts you can just zoom over it and be efficient. That's literally all there is to the achievement, and i don't think that's too much to ask for a feature that is so convenient, but not required for the completion of anything.

Nagini wrote:...
I understand that, as a casual player, the idea of completing some of these achievements seems like a daunting task. However, I feel like Blizzard actually put in a lot of effort making most of the content accessible to all kinds of players (I'm not saying everyone will see -all-the class hall stories, but you'll see your mains, at least, and get that mount). The class hall quests take time, that's true, but they are even made (with time-gated quests and class hall missions) so that they shouldn't be completed in one marathon session. Just playing a handful of hours a week or even month should keep you progressing through the world and eventually towards flying. I personally thought that the current achievements required for flying are almost too easy, but that's my own two cents.
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I, personally, do not mind that after all the hard part of the work, that I can fly, and take my other characters up fairly well ... the sad part for me, is that a similar achievement, does not exist for Pets and I'm not convinced that the pets that we can get from the GrandBumdeBlahBlahReservationoftheWailingFoot is worth the whole hassle at all ... compared to Flying which is a nice bonus to the whole playing experience.

The whole flying thing for Legion is not bad, if you were a reasonable player previously and you played enough to get almost the Part 1 completely finished ... just like I was missing just Saberstalker faction, and done. But if you, as a casual player, did not even bother to look at factions and some small benefits (one pet there for you!), because your time was limited, then you lost out.

The question is, do you want to lose that paying player or not. If you do, eventually your numbers drop ... and you either raise the price to cover, or admit that ... the game has had its best days, and now it will suffer the pains and contortions of death.

The comparison between Flying and the acquisition of Pets, have, BOTH, undergone changes that I think are going to cause major issues down the line, but it may be a mute story ... if that is already on the way to happening, and we, as usual, are looking at another side of things.

I am not saying, in any way, that we have to have better, and stronger pets, since the Battlemasters we are playing are getting tougher, but somewhere along the way, they will have to stop giving us pets that have exactly the same qualities as the pets we got 5 or 6 years ago, and they continue to have the same bad stats and abilities ... what do I give a cahoot about my Shammie Class Hall Idiot Pet, that is useless? Why would you or I even bother chasing something that is worthless, unless you and I had become so callous and ignorant of the whole game, that the only thing that excites our gonads is if we have 954 pets and be the number one player amidst millions with that many unique pets .... change the number as you will.

The flying part, I will not complaint about. But its history shows a very scary bunch of changes that merely suggests that purchasing of flying is over ... period ... purchasing your playing time is the issue here ... and it looks like they will do this for the Pets as well, with only one problem ... the "new" pets are crap, and they are not even making a single list of top 20 pets, and their usability is next to minimum ... except that they are cute and the girlfriend wants one? That might make the game fun for one person or two ... but in the end ... how are the pets improving or changing? They aren't.

I hope they continue to allow the AH for pets that are locked behind RNG....Knockoff Blingtron comes to mind! I'm fine with making me play to get pets as long as there's a light at the end of the tunnel...if its infinite RNG then I'm not happy.

Wow this Op's agenda is amazing. While yes some of the pets are a pain or hard to get, looking at you dk pets and pvp pets. And would be nice if they could be sold on the ah for the buyer and also for the seller willing to put in the work. In no way does this mean they are getting rid of the ah. In fact your whole theory is flawed by the simple fact one can "buy" gold from blizzard thru the tokens now. If we have nothing to buy then we won't need the gold. And then blizzard misses out on the extra money from the coins. If anything blizz wants us to buy those coins as it is more money for them. What they have done here is how blizz thinks they will keep us busy and have content and not have long content droughts like wod. This new way of getting pets and rng, like eye from dh/warlock for example, is content in blizz's eye plain and simple .


Also in no way shape or form is a casual player not going to be able to get flying. It might take them longer but should be expected from a casual player. But what is needed to fly is things anyone that plays the game should eventually do. Doing the quests to see the story and exploring isn't hard at all. And again is a flawed theory as a casual player in the past by being casual wouldn't have the gold for flying and being casual wouldn't spend real life money on it. Either due to being casual it isn't that big of a priority or have the real life disposable cash. I know many a fellow casual guildie this was the case for and never got faster than the level 60 flying and didn't fly in expansions like mop. Heck most like it that they can "earn" it now.

Nice try but you are wrong here and have missed what blizz is doing here comes completely. What you have missed is the fact blizz is now considering rng drops and long grinds as content. And that I can agree is not always great if they keep pushing it farther and farther.

Digem wrote:...
While yes some of the pets are a pain or hard to get, looking at you dk pets and pvp pets. And would be nice if they could be sold on the ah for the buyer and also for the seller willing to put in the work. In no way does this mean they are getting rid of the ah. In fact your whole theory is flawed by the simple fact one can "buy" gold from blizzard thru the tokens now.
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My point is, that the buying/selling thing should be allowed and perhaps be more open ... what if one of us wants to quit the game ... just lose all the good stuff? I might like to sell some of it, and then, give the amount away to another player, like a kid somewhere, and hope that he can do good with them.

The Gold thing, was a matter of time ... about 10 years ago, you could not really get by without purchasing some gold on the Internet. That Blizzard is doing it now, is just hitting back at a side of the economy that Blizzard was losing out on ... but heck, they would not need that if they changed a few things in the game ... why sell something for $30 bux when you could get that person's subscription for 3 more months, and it is more money than you collected in the "sell"?

Again, there are things that are strange. I agree that they have to do something to augment their game, and not allow the incredible number of farmers a few years back, control the game, and its future. At least, and I agree, the game is NOW, more than EVER, in blizzard's hands, although I find the different pet trax on the Class Halls a bit disturbing ... but I guess someone thought it would be more fun if they were all different ... might be, if those jerks played the game, but they DON'T. So, making that decision is WRONG ...

All in all, and I'm no socialist whatsoever, I simply would like to see DK's be able to get their one pet ... and maybe have to work for the other 2 ... but heck, my Shammie only has one pet, so I'm not sure why complaint about the extra two pets ... you can concentrate on your main spec and it gets done fast now, with 1K+ AK items. Heck, I have my shammie at 20 on that middle piece on all 3 weapons ... and it was not that slow ... I had too many of those tokens to use as it is and ended up having to sell them to the vendors now.

The whole pet thing, on the AH is sad, compared to 3 years ago ... when there were, EASILY twice as many pets available for sale ... and that really is all I'm looking at ... I would like to see more, not that I need them, since I obviously don't ... but at least I'm going back and getting the pet from the Sporegar ... and just got the Rustberg Gull ... as an example, and will slowly work on the few I can get that I am missing.

Only pet not getting ... Graves. That game is sick, and it's design is sicker still and reminds me of some of the bad games 15 years ago ... Castle of the Winds was more fun!

There have always been achievement-based (or similar) pets that you have to put time in to personally get yourself, since before pet battles were ever a thing. There have also always been pets you can get from trading or the AH. They've not always been in the same ratio through the years, but they've always been there. Do not forget the pain that was the Minfernal and Scourged Whelp in the early days, or requiring you to do the CT... 10 times? To get all 4 celestial pets.

Comparing it to flying is... well, it's not an apt comparison.

Only pet not getting ... Graves. That game is sick, and it's design is sicker still and reminds me of some of the bad games 15 years ago ... Castle of the Winds was more fun!

Only depriving yourself of a great time in a fantastic game.

Warning: This is a bit of stream, because sometimes I automatically adjust the style to the current spirit.

Now it came to my mind, if the class hall pets were tradeable, it would feel wrong to have a pet claimed by a different class. In theory you could make them tradeable *only before caging* and give them labels such as "Class: Shaman" and maybe "Requires level 98" or something more, therefore making it clear you still won't get them without contributing to that class, but again, any class can summon them afterwards, so it would have been confusing for these who'd think the summoning had been restricted.

Would one be fine with that kind of management (tradeable, but able to be added and summoned only by that particular class)? Then it would have a certain common points with class toys (including the Mage one? Not sure -.-') and mounts, what seems satisfying for the blue brigade… but it also means you couldn't just call certain abilities to the battle, what I'm not exactly into.

There is a pet that is obtained by a deep involvement, including a certain achievement (hidden or official) I think, combined with RNG on the top of a daily grind. It's [pet]Searing Scorchling[/pet] and it *IS* tradeable. If Molten Front with its rewards was created today, perhaps this pet would be bound to the owner, huh? (I know, I know, don't give them ideas)
There is no longer a feeling of stability, I can recall a Mists' pre-patch speech made by Ghostcrawler, where at one point he was telling that they didn't want players to swim in legendary items.

So this is it, players can tell "you have changed", and even if so, it would be difficult to deny that right to a company, where the "right" is taken formally and not neccessarily morally. On a micro scale, if you observe the pet abilities and movesets, each expansion tier is a bit different with MoP setting the boundaries, WoD giving some more savagery and Legion going full carpe diem, including experimental forms. It is like there were several pet designers, but no central one that grasps everything what has been done, except perhaps Feasel himself and battletesters of encounters such as Nightwatcher or Algalon.

To be frank, I've been thinking that dichotomy lawful/chaotic as described in D&D, or conservative/liberal in politics inevitably lead to logic bombs, as it is way too relative. What is a rule for one is a violation for another, and what was once a dynamic revolution can develop an uptight regime (and I should have never, even created a paladin ). But that goes a bit too far for this thread.

Everything flows, we can like the changes or not, but it also means the current state may also not last forever.

HotS isn't as grindy as it used to be and the objectives not always focus on applying the brute-force to the enemy base. Sometimes it would be even impossible. But I can understand one can have issues with it, to me it was a long time a poor optimisation (I almost couldn't play it while I was still on 32-bit).

Gilneas wrote: ...
Do not forget the pain that was the Minfernal and Scourged Whelp in the early days, or requiring you to do the CT... 10 times? To get all 4 celestial pets.
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I did the Minfernal by setting up a DK on different servers, with different time elements ... the Brazilian server (I speak Portuguese) was 3 hours earlier, and that gave me two chances in one day, and then one in Europe ... thus one any given day I could try it three times, and finally caught one. I guess this is not needed any more and the Minfernal is now available a lot more before the change.

Gilneas wrote: ...
Comparing it to flying is... well, it's not an apt comparison.

I've never been into the mounts, for some reason ... I'm just glad with Tyrael ... and that's enough for me. I didn't like the dragon after I got done in the Forest in Pandaria, it was way too big, and it made things difficult to see around ... and by that time I was already using flying to get to the next spot and so on ... it never was one of those show off kind of things ... they just don't turn me on!

Gilneas wrote: ...
Only depriving yourself of a great time in a fantastic game. (for Graves)
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That game and the CT ... are probably the two things I won't bother with. I did, however, use a CT guide, as the very first tool that helped me organize the pets I had ... so it's listing was excellent, and since it also mentioned a couple of breeds, it helped me pay attention to those, and later, I went back and cleaned up the duplicates and replaced the ones that had bad choices with better replacements.

I think the issue on Graves for me, is the time element ... I just do not want, at this time, to spend time on another game ... and knowing me, it will take the level of interest/enjoyment I still have for WoW away more than ever ... it's how I lost interest in EQ, not to mention that they had lost all their good folks to WoW, because Sony was not interested in smart players and code folks. And some of the folks they lost ... is downright insane and stupid!

Uduwudu wrote:This was distorted so badly it's not funny. Blizzard, a while back, and as far back as Pandaria and the like, decided that paying for flying was not a good idea, and that you had to earn it ... why? EASY. Many folks were simply going to the internet, spent $20 bux and got the 10K they needed and got the Flying.

Sorry but I call that a myth!
the fact they changed it cause the way it is NOW makes way more sense!
Once you get the achis ALL your toons can fly instead of as before having to pay for EVERY toon.
PLUS on the upside blizzard makes sure EVERY content is played.

Uduwudu wrote:Blizzard set a mark on stopping that, and they did ... by the time Legion came out, the whole thing was so huge that it was difficult to get to fly, and some of us did and others did not, and there is not, ANYWHERE, a really good track record of the number and (even) a sequencing of the quests needed to that you could achieve your Glorious Campaign. for example, my neighbor, got stuck as a Hunter, and it took me over 3 weeks to find what he was missing, mostly because almost ALL the ADDONS out there, now, are merely repeating what is already available in different colors ...
If you are dedicated enough, you will fly ... if you are a casual player ... you are not going to guy it! End of story.

Bollocks! getting flying aint hard and it doesnt take that long even not as a "casual" plus if you are a casual you are not in a HURRY to get it anyway.

Uduwudu wrote:ong is the Quest addon, that listed all the quests in a zone, and you could see the ones you had already done, in order to find out what is missing for you to finish the sequence

for that you have the yellow ! on the map these days....

PLUS there is surely a how to get flyin guide on wowhead - like allways.

Uduwudu wrote:I believe that the same type of thing will eventually happen to ALL pets in Pet Battles ... you will have to play for them, and it might hurt the market for them,

since MOP you have to play for SOME pets and it DIDNT hurt the market at all.

Uduwudu wrote:even though more folks are Pet Battling than ever.

Source of PROOF for your CLAIM?

Uduwudu wrote:So get ready to battle more ... I doubt that we will be seeing many more pets that can be sold in the AH in the future. My only thought at this time is ... is Blizzard considering killing the AH in the future? And my thoughts are that it might not kill it, but it will hinder it severely.

ALL I can say to this is: ROFLMAO

Uduwudu wrote:

Harpooha wrote:Comparing unlocking flying to pet collecting is a real apples and oranges thing

I disagree.

Still you are WRONG!

Uduwudu wrote:They are both following a path that leads to not allowing any players to buy much of anything, up to and including the gear, potions and elixirs and many other items, that used to be very normal to find in the AH.

Sorry to say so but theres nothing wrong with the setting: If you want it play for it.

Uduwudu wrote:To maintain a large number of players, you have to make sure that the hardcores and the part timers, stick around and pay for the game ... but not allowing these part timers to have a chance at flying, and then various Pets, because they simply do not have the time to play that much to get 1436 quests done (so to speak!), then you have, effectively, shut out a sizeable portion of your folks that can play online ...

As stated above this is TOTALLY BOLLOCKS!

Uduwudu wrote:The solution, has to be ALL INCLUSIVE ... not EXCLUSIVE ...

YOU are the ONLY one that feels excluded. WoW doesnt need to turn into a smartphone instant gratification game.

Uduwudu wrote:So, if some pets are, then, in the AH, so what?

WTF you cryin about there are pets in the AH all the time, Knockoff Blingtron, the Valshara one, the new Wailing Cavern ones....