Battle Pets Representation on New WOW Community Council?

[Sunderezz]

Linking here to the 11/1/21 news article explaining the WOW Community Council https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-o ... ty-council.

The stated intent is

. . . Player feedback impacts all aspects of the game, and with such a wide range of opinions, playstyles, and interests out there, gathering and understanding feedback is more important than ever.

To help further our efforts in this area, we’re introducing the WoW Community Council. This program will add another venue for communication between players and WoW developers. Our goal is to gather more detailed feedback on all aspects of World of Warcraft from players around the world with a wide range of backgrounds and interests.

I read so many great ideas in battle pet related forums. Hoping we get a voice in this new Council. Of course, it may just amount to "spitting in the wind", yet thinking positive here.

[Quintessence]

Here's hoping a couple of people from both pet battling and pet collecting camps get onto the council!

[Superstition]

Fingers crossed, we better get some representation!

[Gráinne]

What do you think would be the effect?

I have my ideas on what I'd like to see. Those are no doubt different from Quintessence's or Dragons', or Rosqo's. In some cases, violently different. And I'm quite we all have very different ideas from the vast majority of people who pet battle only sporadically, or who collect without battling more than the absolute minimum.

Kuja, in the Discord, thinks that the introduction of battling entirely ruined collecting, and calls it a bad idea.

So which of us should the devs listen to?

[Quintessence]

It's possible the devs will listen to both - those for battling and those against. Those for battling might offer up some ideas for new features, systems, etc. Those against it could shed some light on why there's the aversion and how things could be changed to lessen the dislike.

It's also possible the devs will mainly want to hear from players who are actively for X aspect of the game. I mean, I don't think they'll want excessive feedback/coplaining from someone that hates PVP, over someone that loves PVP and wants to see that part of the game thrive. They're probably willing to hear out some criticism though.

My hope is that both battlers and collectors get a spot at the table. Both parties will no doubt have input on Pet Battle/battle pet bugs, glitches, and gameplay suggestions.

Or! This whole council thing might not work out at all... >_<

[Sunderezz]

The more I read and think about this, the more important it seems to have the battle pets community represented. There are many long term players who contribute so much to this community, anyone would be such a great advocate for our little corner of WOW. I would trust any of those I am thinking of to represent a balance between their own opinions and the overall community concerns expressed in many forum posts across the web.

I appreciate WOW developers taking action to try to mitigate what they perceive to be barriers discouraging new players from entering the battle pets game. It will be interesting to see the effectiveness of strategies they implemented in the 9.1.5 Patch https://www.wow-petguide.com/News/328/P ... 021-09-16

Any focus group has to address a few key questions regarding the target population being considered. Two or three key questions might be:
1. What might attract and support newcomers as they learn the game?
2. What might motivate & help retain long term players?
3. What might encourage both PVP players & pet collectors to continue to play the game?

Of course each of us has our own "wish list" . . . does anyone have the skills/time to do a survey? Would this even be useful?

As always, my appreciation for everyone taking their time to make the game a positive experience for all players.

[Aranesh]

I'm hopeful for the council. The devs have always listened to the community but in an intransparent, disconnected way. No one knew where they got the feedback from exactly, how it was gathered, collated and weighted. There was no feedback loop. The council has the chance to provide that insight, to make it easier for the entire community to channel their voices and for the devs to give feedback back into the community in a more targeted and personal manner.

That being said, if that works out, I don't think it will make too much of a difference who from the pet battling community is picked, as long as there is representation and as long as those people understand their role as community representatives. From the people I know have nominated themselves I don't think the latter would be a problem. Fingers crossed!

[Gráinne]

"as long as those people understand their role as community representatives"

I don't see any indication that Blizzard expect their chosen members to act as "community representatives" in the sense of gathering feedback from other players and presenting that. As things stand, I wouldn't expect that to be my role if I applied (I haven't) and was selected.

I perceive this more as a focus group, a very badly chosen sample of people who will give their own personal opinions.

[Aranesh]

That's a bleak outlook :/
I do hope that most people would understand their role as a representative and that Blizz would also encourage that style of feedback. Otherwise they would just create the same system again with a group of "trusted" people who have an artifically high impact on decisions. I hope for and believe it will be something better!

[Uduwudu]

Here's hoping a couple of people from both pet battling and pet collecting camps get onto the council!

Hi,

I don't know ... Microsoft is not exactly known for listening to people and still code their own thing. They might think this is a waste of good money! Of course that was like saying that Activision did any better, right?

But it would be a very nice thing, otherwise!

[Uduwudu]

That's a bleak outlook :/
I do hope that most people would understand their role as a representative and that Blizz would also encourage that style of feedback. Otherwise they would just create the same system again with a group of "trusted" people who have an artifically high impact on decisions. I hope for and believe it will be something better!

Hi,

Or worse ... more pvp and less pve. The most vocal of folks I have ever met were all pvp'rs! And they killed a game that I was a part of Beta some years back!

[Escalus]

Here's hoping a couple of people from both pet battling and pet collecting camps get onto the council!

Hi,

I don't know ... Microsoft is not exactly known for listening to people and still code their own thing. They might think this is a waste of good money! Of course that was like saying that Activision did any better, right?

But it would be a very nice thing, otherwise!

Well the deal won't close till likely the 2023 fiscal year

[Meiora]

I'm hopeful for the council. The devs have always listened to the community but in an intransparent, disconnected way. No one knew where they got the feedback from exactly, how it was gathered, collated and weighted. There was no feedback loop. The council has the chance to provide that insight, to make it easier for the entire community to channel their voices and for the devs to give feedback back into the community in a more targeted and personal manner.

That being said, if that works out, I don't think it will make too much of a difference who from the pet battling community is picked, as long as there is representation and as long as those people understand their role as community representatives. From the people I know have nominated themselves I don't think the latter would be a problem. Fingers crossed!

Hello, I am on the Community Council and would be more than willing to take back ideas / suggestions / questions etc

[Science]

Hopefully this is ok, but bump--while I myself have nothing to add, it seems that a community council member posting here was missed.

[Shadowdreamer]

Hello, I am on the Community Council and would be more than willing to take back ideas / suggestions / questions etc

Probably too late, but I've seen that you still lurk / browse here...so:

(1) We need more / new Pet Battle Dungeons. The ones we got were great but it has been several years since we've gotten that type of content. That's unacceptable. Dragon Isles has a lot of places we could traverse and a lot of potential for this type of thing.

(2) I'd also like a new / updated Celestial Tournament type of thing. Maybe the Draconic Tournament? Let us fight against Dragon Isle NPCs until we get to the finals and fight teams made by Ysera, Alexstrasza, Noz, etc. Maybe the ultimate pet could be like an offspring of Raszageth or something.

(3) Breeding - I'd love for this to be a new secondary profession that doesn't take any slots. Maybe we could put two pets of similar breed in a home together, feed them, and they could produce eggs or w/e that give us unique colors of new pets. Or some hybrids. This would be more work, admittedly, but it would be really fun.

(4) Change how PvP works. PvP pet challenges are annoying and difficult due to a host of issues. The time it takes is annoying as is the meta. It would be really fun / better if we could opt to complete challenges by fighting a pool of random NPCS with randomized pets. The difficulty element would still be there (if the pets are randomized) but it would be less annoying.

(5) Leveling - It would be nice if we could get another wearable like the safari hat but it would provide an extra boost to pet experience. As it stands, Squirt + sign of critter is the only way to level pets efficiently and that doesn't always line up.

(6) Epic and legendary quality pets when?

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[Digem]

be great if we ever got something like the celestial tournament again

[Uduwudu]

be great if we ever got something like the celestial tournament again

Hi,

That is one place I have not enjoyed doing the battles ... taking 3 weeks to get one pet?

That said, I think I have 2 of them and have not bothered with the other 2. The strats on Xu-fu are excellent, and really helpful but you have to pay attention to ensure that you follow them tight.

About the "Community Council" thing.

(mini soapbox mode)

I'm not sure I like it ... it's too easy to now see that the majority of the code folks don't play the game and need suggestions to find ways to implement ideas. It's pretty obvious with the way half the Glyphs are designed that are so far up, and you can't get there with the current abilities on your dragon flyer.

The one thing that was bad, and it goes way back to EQ, was that what a lot of the "code folks" were doing, was actually counter the ideas and thoughts that the players came up with ... as a very serious and incredible example, was the BARD in EQ that would pull a full Plane zone and kill them all with their twisting. Within months, the mobs started dropping off after a small distance, and a couple more months and EQ implemented a twisting system that had no flexibility and a way to get an inch more out of it all, something that many BARDS "invented" for that game that was a a heaven for players, but a hell for the folks trying to keep the game in one piece. In the end, they "mechanized" the bard so tight to a spreadsheet, and even created damage limits that made the fun of the class fall apart, and of course, the game went downhill right after when at least 2 strong bards that even had databases and spreadsheets on their ended up coming to Blizzard, and the best players left that game, and it has never recovered.

My main concern is a lot of code folks not playing the game fro the start to see how bad some things are ... a good example is from 69 to 70 ... and as soon as you hit that, you do not have enough gear for the 70's content, and it takes a while to get to a point, where you can finally play reasonably well without spending 200/300 gold on repairs (retail!!!) ... every couple of hours, which would make the game very difficult and not viable unless you grouped, which is a problem ... the retail game has totally disdained the grouping thing to the point of creating the "phazed" thing to prevent you from playing with your friend ... it used to be just a level thing, but now it is a series of quests thing ... my friend was trying the are in the southern area, and she got phazed out immediately as we went up into the platform. Yes, I had complete the whole sequence and I had the luck of someone helping me finish one of the spots that were really difficult, other than that it wasn't a big problem.

The "phazed" thing is malicious, and prevents you from playing with a friend, in a game that advertises friends ... what's the point of getting someone into the game and you can't play with them?

IF, and that is HUGE IF, this Council is designed, and specified out front that it is not about killing things, like making subtle changes on the various fights so they get tougher, and some of these changes could be easily done if you have the pet battle addons, which shows you what the pet has and you can time yourself to it. The bad side of their code might be that some options for the pet is using are not exactly well thought out at all, and many times, their pet waists the dive and such ... meaning that it was not coded well at all anyway ... it was copied and something setup and the code person probably not even knowing what the option did within the fight. They make sure they can do this in the game, specially PVP, but when it comes to Pet Battles, so far, in the Dragon Isles and further, nothing the pets are doing is new ... with one exception .. it used to be that you could fight fire with water, and other options, the counters were quite visible and well used, but now, the only new thing in some battle pets is that they have mixed abilities which makes it harder at times, but all i all, with the right choices of pets, you should win at least 90% of the time and level your 23 pet easily ... (remember to use that pet as the 3rd for one hit or two! -- I bring mine in at 16 with one hit or more depending on their upside or downside against an enemy).

What is weird is that they can easily read all the info everywhere about all the fights and work with it, but adding a "Community Council" is a problem ... you're going to endup with a bunch or power players (Classic version) in guild dumping people that can not do enough damage for Ulduar (for example) and then blame you for your inability and the bad information on how to improve your dps.

Something of this nature, for a Community Council would be a disaster for the Pet Battles in my book. I don't want the "corporate raiders" in charge of the retail game, like they are in the Classic ... which I was glad to dump, and wish I could send the money they have to the retail accounts ... that portion of the game was the worst and most disappointing side of WOW I have ever experienced. You're always an idiot if your Warlock, or Mage can not dump 7K damage in Ulduar ... or more. And the information about it is not right since the timing for the Affliction Warlock (example) will not allow 5 spells to be up all the time. The whole thing is a joke, meaning that there is some automation somewhere that is "secret" and not shared, I guess.

The nice thing about Pet Battles, is no "secret", and if you choose the right pet you can handle the battles, but the Family Familiar thing is bugged, and I have not been able to EVER finish one set of them, to the point that I gave up ... it's specially bad with the enemy pets having various combinations of spells to use that more than counter the abilities that you have on hand ... again this is a code design by someone that said ... they are not going to win 90% of the time ... PERIOD.

[Guest]

I understand your frustration with the battles taking a long time to get a pet. It can be discouraging when progress feels slow. It's great that you found some helpful strategies on Xu-fu to assist you, but it's crucial to pay attention and execute them properly for the best results.

Regarding the "Community Council" thing you mentioned, I have mixed feelings as well. It does seem apparent that some of the developers may not actively play the game, relying on suggestions to implement ideas. This can sometimes result in design choices that feel disconnected from the player experience. I can see how certain aspects, like inaccessible Glyphs due to current abilities on the dragon flyer, can be frustrating.

[Digem]

be great if we ever got something like the celestial tournament again

Hi,

That is one place I have not enjoyed doing the battles ... taking 3 weeks to get one pet?

That said, I think I have 2 of them and have not bothered with the other 2. The strats on Xu-fu are excellent, and really helpful but you have to pay attention to ensure that you follow them tight.

About the "Community Council" thing.

(mini soapbox mode)

I'm not sure I like it ... it's too easy to now see that the majority of the code folks don't play the game and need suggestions to find ways to implement ideas. It's pretty obvious with the way half the Glyphs are designed that are so far up, and you can't get there with the current abilities on your dragon flyer.

The one thing that was bad, and it goes way back to EQ, was that what a lot of the "code folks" were doing, was actually counter the ideas and thoughts that the players came up with ... as a very serious and incredible example, was the BARD in EQ that would pull a full Plane zone and kill them all with their twisting. Within months, the mobs started dropping off after a small distance, and a couple more months and Blizzard implemented a twisting system that had no flexibility and a way to get an inch more out of it all, something that many BARDS "invented" for that game that was a a heaven for players, but a hell for the folks trying to keep the game in one piece. In the end, they "mechanized" the bard so tight to a spreadsheet, and even created damage limits that made the fun of the class fall apart, and of course, the game went downhill right after when at least 2 strong bards that even had databases and spreadsheets on their ended up coming to Blizzard, and the best players left that game, and it has never recovered.

My main concern is a lot of code folks not playing the game fro the start to see how bad some things are ... a good example is from 69 to 70 ... and as soon as you hit that, you do not have enough gear for the 70's content, and it takes a while to get to a point, where you can finally play reasonably well without spending 200/300 gold on repairs (retail!!!) ... every couple of hours, which would make the game very difficult and not viable unless you grouped, which is a problem ... the retail game has totally disdained the grouping thing to the point of creating the "phazed" thing to prevent you from playing with your friend ... it used to be just a level thing, but now it is a series of quests thing ... my friend was trying the are in the southern area, and she got phazed out immediately as we went up into the platform. Yes, I had complete the whole sequence and I had the luck of someone helping me finish one of the spots that were really difficult, other than that it wasn't a big problem.

The "phazed" thing is malicious, and prevents you from playing with a friend, in a game that advertises friends ... what's the point of getting someone into the game and you can't play with them?

IF, and that is HUGE IF, this Council is designed, and specified out front that it is not about killing things, like making subtle changes on the various fights so they get tougher, and some of these changes could be easily done if you have the pet battle addons, which shows you what the pet has and you can time yourself to it. The bad side of their code might be that some options for the pet is using are not exactly well thought out at all, and many times, their pet waists the dive and such ... meaning that it was not coded well at all anyway ... it was copied and something setup and the code person probably not even knowing what the option did within the fight. They make sure they can do this in the game, specially PVP, but when it comes to Pet Battles, so far, in the Dragon Isles and further, nothing the pets are doing is new ... with one exception .. it used to be that you could fight fire with water, and other options, the counters were quite visible and well used, but now, the only new thing in some battle pets is that they have mixed abilities which makes it harder at times, but all i all, with the right choices of pets, you should win at least 90% of the time and level your 23 pet easily ... (remember to use that pet as the 3rd for one hit or two! -- I bring mine in at 16 with one hit or more depending on their upside or downside against an enemy).

What is weird is that they can easily read all the info everywhere about all the fights and work with it, but adding a "Community Council" is a problem ... you're going to endup with a bunch or power players (Classic version) in guild dumping people that can not do enough damage for Ulduar (for example) and then blame you for your inability and the bad information on how to improve your dps.

Something of this nature, for a Community Council would be a disaster for the Pet Battles in my book. I don't want the "corporate raiders" in charge of the retail game, like they are in the Classic ... which I was glad to dump, and wish I could send the money they have to the retail accounts ... that portion of the game was the worst and most disappointing side of WOW I have ever experienced. You're always an idiot if your Warlock, or Mage can not dump 7K damage in Ulduar ... or more. And the information about it is not right since the timing for the Affliction Warlock (example) will not allow 5 spells to be up all the time. The whole thing is a joke, meaning that there is some automation somewhere that is "secret" and not shared, I guess.

The nice thing about Pet Battles, is no "secret", and if you choose the right pet you can handle the battles, but the Family Familiar thing is bugged, and I have not been able to EVER finish one set of them, to the point that I gave up ... it's specially bad with the enemy pets having various combinations of spells to use that more than counter the abilities that you have on hand ... again this is a code design by someone that said ... they are not going to win 90% of the time ... PERIOD.

the point of it was to have something to do for weeks and that is why i liked it.

[Digem]

be great if we ever got something like the celestial tournament again

Hi,

That is one place I have not enjoyed doing the battles ... taking 3 weeks to get one pet?

That said, I think I have 2 of them and have not bothered with the other 2. The strats on Xu-fu are excellent, and really helpful but you have to pay attention to ensure that you follow them tight.

About the "Community Council" thing.

(mini soapbox mode)

I'm not sure I like it ... it's too easy to now see that the majority of the code folks don't play the game and need suggestions to find ways to implement ideas. It's pretty obvious with the way half the Glyphs are designed that are so far up, and you can't get there with the current abilities on your dragon flyer.

The one thing that was bad, and it goes way back to EQ, was that what a lot of the "code folks" were doing, was actually counter the ideas and thoughts that the players came up with ... as a very serious and incredible example, was the BARD in EQ that would pull a full Plane zone and kill them all with their twisting. Within months, the mobs started dropping off after a small distance, and a couple more months and Blizzard implemented a twisting system that had no flexibility and a way to get an inch more out of it all, something that many BARDS "invented" for that game that was a a heaven for players, but a hell for the folks trying to keep the game in one piece. In the end, they "mechanized" the bard so tight to a spreadsheet, and even created damage limits that made the fun of the class fall apart, and of course, the game went downhill right after when at least 2 strong bards that even had databases and spreadsheets on their ended up coming to Blizzard, and the best players left that game, and it has never recovered.

My main concern is a lot of code folks not playing the game fro the start to see how bad some things are ... a good example is from 69 to 70 ... and as soon as you hit that, you do not have enough gear for the 70's content, and it takes a while to get to a point, where you can finally play reasonably well without spending 200/300 gold on repairs (retail!!!) ... every couple of hours, which would make the game very difficult and not viable unless you grouped, which is a problem ... the retail game has totally disdained the grouping thing to the point of creating the "phazed" thing to prevent you from playing with your friend ... it used to be just a level thing, but now it is a series of quests thing ... my friend was trying the are in the southern area, and she got phazed out immediately as we went up into the platform. Yes, I had complete the whole sequence and I had the luck of someone helping me finish one of the spots that were really difficult, other than that it wasn't a big problem.

The "phazed" thing is malicious, and prevents you from playing with a friend, in a game that advertises friends ... what's the point of getting someone into the game and you can't play with them?

IF, and that is HUGE IF, this Council is designed, and specified out front that it is not about killing things, like making subtle changes on the various fights so they get tougher, and some of these changes could be easily done if you have the pet battle addons, which shows you what the pet has and you can time yourself to it. The bad side of their code might be that some options for the pet is using are not exactly well thought out at all, and many times, their pet waists the dive and such ... meaning that it was not coded well at all anyway ... it was copied and something setup and the code person probably not even knowing what the option did within the fight. They make sure they can do this in the game, specially PVP, but when it comes to Pet Battles, so far, in the Dragon Isles and further, nothing the pets are doing is new ... with one exception .. it used to be that you could fight fire with water, and other options, the counters were quite visible and well used, but now, the only new thing in some battle pets is that they have mixed abilities which makes it harder at times, but all i all, with the right choices of pets, you should win at least 90% of the time and level your 23 pet easily ... (remember to use that pet as the 3rd for one hit or two! -- I bring mine in at 16 with one hit or more depending on their upside or downside against an enemy).

What is weird is that they can easily read all the info everywhere about all the fights and work with it, but adding a "Community Council" is a problem ... you're going to endup with a bunch or power players (Classic version) in guild dumping people that can not do enough damage for Ulduar (for example) and then blame you for your inability and the bad information on how to improve your dps.

Something of this nature, for a Community Council would be a disaster for the Pet Battles in my book. I don't want the "corporate raiders" in charge of the retail game, like they are in the Classic ... which I was glad to dump, and wish I could send the money they have to the retail accounts ... that portion of the game was the worst and most disappointing side of WOW I have ever experienced. You're always an idiot if your Warlock, or Mage can not dump 7K damage in Ulduar ... or more. And the information about it is not right since the timing for the Affliction Warlock (example) will not allow 5 spells to be up all the time. The whole thing is a joke, meaning that there is some automation somewhere that is "secret" and not shared, I guess.

The nice thing about Pet Battles, is no "secret", and if you choose the right pet you can handle the battles, but the Family Familiar thing is bugged, and I have not been able to EVER finish one set of them, to the point that I gave up ... it's specially bad with the enemy pets having various combinations of spells to use that more than counter the abilities that you have on hand ... again this is a code design by someone that said ... they are not going to win 90% of the time ... PERIOD.

xu-fu pets site has a strategy to beat all the family battlers easily. some because of bad rng might take a couple of times but all are pretty easy to do