WarcraftPets Forum

So today while leveling with my combo Anubisath Idol, Fluxfire Feline & (Pet to be leveled)
I noticed something odd with the ability Reflection.

Normally its just supposed to reflect the attack of your opponent (and yes we all love it
when the opponent casts a heal when its up )

While battling Flowing Pandaren Spirit I usually let one pet die because the first
time Geysir & Whirlpool go off in the same round killing everything.
But today I used Reflection and it made both abilities plus the
attack miss my pet and the Whirlpool was reflected.

Is this known, a bug or working even as intended?

I thought Reflect got nerfed lately to no longer reflect defensive moves such as heals? o.O
And I've actually never seen Reflect reflect more than 1 thing at once, even if more than one thing was happening in a round.. o.O

reflect doesnt reflect heals anymore that was sarcasm - excuse me forgetting the appropriate tag there
and yes it does reflect more only one attack of the three but it makes all three attacks MISS YOUR PET and I doubt that was intended ....

Ooh, I read ya. Sorry I had read your original post a little too fast, hehe.

I believe it's working as intended. That's how it's been working for me ever since the last Reflect "nerf" that happened a little after 5.1. You'll reflect only one offensive ability, but will dodge everything in that round.

I wonder if you won't even avoid taking damage from DoTs already on you when you cast Reflect.. I can't remember for sure but I think you do..

Has anyone else noticed that Reflect wont reflect the damage from Pump or Wind-up? You still don't get hit, but it'd be nice to send that damage back like all the other spells.

See what I did there?

Taurnek22 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that Reflect wont reflect the damage from Pump or Wind-up? You still don't get hit, but it'd be nice to send that damage back like all the other spells.

Regarding Pump, I think that if you can get a second Reflect off during the battle, it will perform the Pump ability. So first one is just the buff, second one replicates the actual damage. My guess is that it behaves this way since Pump itself is a sort of two round-ish attack.

Quintessence wrote:

Taurnek22 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that Reflect wont reflect the damage from Pump or Wind-up? You still don't get hit, but it'd be nice to send that damage back like all the other spells.

Regarding Pump, I think that if you can get a second Reflect off during the battle, it will perform the Pump ability. So first one is just the buff, second one replicates the actual damage. My guess is that it behaves this way since Pump itself is a sort of two round-ish attack.

Hmm ... Never thought of that. I'll have to keep my eyes open and see if that's the case.

If you use any spell that is 2 step first will charge the 2nd will use it same with clockwork rocket, also using reflect only the last bit of dmg is reflected infernal dmg aura is a great defense against reflect cause it will only throw back the 70 dmg vs what ever move you did before. Same if like whirlpool is up the attack will miss whirlpool will miss but only whirlpool will be reflected.

I've never reflected a defensive ability, but from what I gather it reflects all damage that is done to you that ROUND back at the enemy. Last pet battle I did with my Flayer Youngling I reflected a Geyser, and Elementium Bolt.

In regards to wind up and pump; I'm just glad the damage is negated and I get a sweet 10% increased damage along with my other buffs! lol

Taurnek22 wrote:

Quintessence wrote:

Taurnek22 wrote:Has anyone else noticed that Reflect wont reflect the damage from Pump or Wind-up? You still don't get hit, but it'd be nice to send that damage back like all the other spells.

Regarding Pump, I think that if you can get a second Reflect off during the battle, it will perform the Pump ability. So first one is just the buff, second one replicates the actual damage. My guess is that it behaves this way since Pump itself is a sort of two round-ish attack.

Hmm ... Never thought of that. I'll have to keep my eyes open and see if that's the case.

Just to clarify, I believe you'd need to reflect a second Pump (incoming damage) for your pet's "pump" to trigger and deal damage.

I haven't been able to test this myself, but in theory it would go:
- Opponent casts Pump (1)
- Opponent casts Pump (2)
- You reflect Pump (2), gain a Pump buff
- Opponent casts Pump (1)
- Opponent casts Pump (2)
- You reflect Pump (2), reflect the Pump damage back to the opponent

Just to clarify, I believe you'd need to reflect a second Pump (incoming damage) for your pet's "pump" to trigger and deal damage.

I haven't been able to test this myself, but in theory it would go:
- Opponent casts Pump (1)
- Opponent casts Pump (2)
- You reflect Pump (2), gain a Pump buff
- Opponent casts Pump (1)
- Opponent casts Pump (2)
- You reflect Pump (2), reflect the Pump damage back to the opponent

Sounds about right. Although it would actually go like this:
- Opponent casts Pump (1)
- Opponent casts Pump (2)
- You reflect Pump (2), gain a Pump buff
- Opponent casts Pump (2) and hits you hard
- 4 rounds later, the reflection is off CD. If you still live, you could try reflect another pump to get the buff again, triggering the attack. But by then the enemy or your pet very likely will already have died.

Not much point in reflecting the pump: it's a wasted round.

Cabadath wrote:Not much point in reflecting the pump: it's a wasted round.

The 10% increased dmg buff that your pet gains when reflecting the first Pump seems to apply to your pets attacks. I'm not 100% sure about this, though, as I was only able to test it a few times.

Not sure if that means it's worth reflecting Pump or not. Depends on if you think 10% increase dmg is significant or negligible.

Cabadath wrote:Sounds about right. Although it would actually go like this:
- Opponent casts Pump (1)
- Opponent casts Pump (2)
- You reflect Pump (2), gain a Pump buff
- Opponent casts Pump (2) and hits you hard
- 4 rounds later, the reflection is off CD. If you still live, you could try reflect another pump to get the buff again, triggering the attack. But by then the enemy or your pet very likely will already have died.

Not much point in reflecting the pump: it's a wasted round.

I tested this on the water spirit and the townlong trainer: if you reflect pump(2), you prevent the damage, the opponent loses the pump buff, and you gain the pump buff. If you then reflect pump(2) while you have the pump buff, you prevent the damage, the opponent loses the pump buff, you deal damage with your own pump(2), and you lose the pump buff. Under those conditions, it's a pretty strong play to reflect a pump(2).

By and large, if you attack into a Reflection, you still get all the disadvantages/costs of the attack you used. Ie if you use Power Surge, and it gets reflected, then you still have to recharge for 2 rounds.

The only caveat is that this is all against tamers; I don't know why it would be different in PvP but it's possible.

Varda wrote:

See what I did there?

haha. I did something similar the other day, I used Explode on my Zeppelin and made a reflecting Idol kill itself. The Zeppelin still died from using the attack, but he was at low health so it didn't really matter.

It is a bit confusing because the ability doesn't really just Reflect everything back to target like it would seem. It wont just take the damage you should of received that round and place it on your enemy. Instead it will make your pet perform exactly what the last attack it received (meaning that it also follows the bonus and reduced damage effects-just because the attack would hit you for 33% +dmg doesn't mean it will do the same on enemy).

Your pet must receive damage in order to reflect the attack. Because wind up is a 2 part ability that does do damage on 2nd use, you are able to "reflect" the Wind Up spell. However when your pet preforms it, it only gets the 1st use +10% damage. In order to do the 2nd use affect, it would require you to reflect another Wind Up attack while having the buff.

It also only reflects the last attack it received therefore if you had a debuff/dot on like Whirlpool and you got attacked with a Dive that round also, because the debuff's/dots go at the end of the round, you would only preform Whirlpool back on the enemy.

Quintessence wrote:

Cabadath wrote:Not much point in reflecting the pump: it's a wasted round.

The 10% increased dmg buff that your pet gains when reflecting the first Pump seems to apply to your pets attacks. I'm not 100% sure about this, though, as I was only able to test it a few times.

Not sure if that means it's worth reflecting Pump or not. Depends on if you think 10% increase dmg is significant or negligible.

Yes, that's true. I just thought that the flayer youngling wasn't that useful vs aquatic pets . All you do is to prolong the enemy's pump-nuke by one round. Better than nothing I guess, as you would either switch out the flayer or try to nuke the enemy pet down before it kills you. With the +10 % dmg buff, at least you are a little bit better prepared.

I didn't read all the posts, but I will chip in and say this ability is complete BS and needs to be nerfed heavily. When people can faceroll their way to victory using 3 pets with this skilless ability enough is enough. It should reflect instances of damage period, not buffs/heals/etc. and ONLY ONE, if 2 committed attacks like whirlpool/geyser are about to land it should only reflect 1, not both and also not any other ability used that round before they went off as well.

Tizerbob wrote:I didn't read all the posts, but I will chip in and say this ability is complete BS and needs to be nerfed heavily. When people can faceroll their way to victory using 3 pets with this skilless ability enough is enough. It should reflect instances of damage period, not buffs/heals/etc. and ONLY ONE, if 2 committed attacks like whirlpool/geyser are about to land it should only reflect 1, not both and also not any other ability used that round before they went off as well.

I can understand your frustration, but I wouldn't call it a skill-less ability. It does not reflect heals or buffs currently (unless you count the way Wind-Up and Pump work as buffs) and it does only reflect one attack, but it will cause all attacks made against it during that round to miss.

In PVP, it is somewhat predictable when a reflect will be coming and if you know what pets can reflect, you can bait the reflect with an ability that won't kill you or attempt to bait it with an empty turn.

Making it work against only the first ability that hits during a round may be a change that doesn't make the ability totally useless.

It's a little bit skill-less because of how effective it is, even when you don't play it particularly well. The only way to outplay it is to use a self-buff or heal on the turn they Reflect.

you can bait the reflect with an ability that won't kill you or attempt to bait it with an empty turn.

This is true, but, when you succeed at this you have only made the Reflection less effective than it could have been--you haven't made it ineffective. E.g. you could fake out a Reflection with a low-damage ability, but they still take 0 damage for the turn and you take >0 damage. If they reflect an empty turn, then you've genuinely neutralized the Reflection, but if you guess wrong you're at a huge disadvantage (you've skipped your turn, they haven't, and Reflection isn't on cd).

When you hit Reflection, you absolutely know that 1) you will not take damage this turn, except from pre-existing debuffs, and 2) you have a high likelihood to deal at least some damage to the opponent, with the potential to reflect something really devastating. The very worst case scenario is that you choose Reflection, and they pass--in this case you come out even.* But the potential upside is huge (e.g. you reflect Power Surge or Geyser or etc.). This makes Reflection a no risk/high reward ability.

* You can genuinely outplay Reflection with Explode or Unholy Ascension, but it's going to be very hard to trick a competent player into reflecting these.