How do you counter this lil'rag/direhorn team?

Vessy · Post by **Vessy** » February 7th, 2015, 7:58 pm

Anyone have a reliable counter for this particular team that runs very frequently in my battlegroup?
This is also partially a question on how to properly manage magma trap.

Lil' Ragnaros 2,1,2
Stunted Direhorn 1,1,1
Bronze Whelpling S/S 1,2,1

A standard order of abilities is:
Magma Trap -> switch to Direhorn -> Primal Cry -> Horn Attack -> Trihorn charge -> rpt
Lil Rag back in- Trap-> sons of flame-> magma wave ++ etc
Bronze Whelpling for sweeper - due to backline pets taking AoE dmg from Primal Cry/Magma Wave, easy to clean up esp with dragonkin racial proccing early

Lil' Rag and Direhorn cover each other very well and AoE enough for the bronze whelpling.
-Critters for soaking the trap/stun are out as Direhorn wrecks them.
-Mechs (Eg Warbot with minefield to "force" Direhorn to stay in) to try and counter Direhorn are difficult to use. Magma trap is already down, Lil Rag can be kept in longer and takes less dmg from mech abilities.

I have beaten this team (Eg. frog/mech frog/frostfur rat) but there is a strong reliance on my end for good procs and bad procs on the opposing team. It's also entirely possible/very likely that I should just play my existing teams better!
Haven't had much success with the typical "strong teams". ie clonedance, aoe teams (Eg. Weebom/Kovok/MPD) primarily due to this teams high stun rate-> Magma trap stun, Direhorn trample stun, Trihorn always hitting (85% my ass).

Currently, I'm trying to make an arcane winds team work to mitigate the stuns but trying to also not screw myself facing other teams in the queue.

Anyone have a non-cheesy team to beat this?
On a separate note, how should magma trap be managed?
-Seems like the only non-RNG counters are critter/arcane winds/blinding poison with switch

Your thoughts are much appreciated!

Myon · Post by **Myon** » February 8th, 2015, 6:37 am

That's me

I've been running it lately for a change from Murkalot teams.

It's actually a surprisingly well rounded team even though it looks like just two OP pets thrown into the same team (Rags and the direhorn), you nailed all the points.

The direhorn can take the humanoid hits the Bronze Whelpling can't, and provides valuable speed control because the whelpling is pretty helpless against anything faster than 325 (and there are quite a few). Most of them tend to be critters too, and trying to run critters for the stun immunity and evasion gets them shredded by the direhorn's beast damage and priority.

Rags in turn can take the mechanical hits that the direhorn can't, clears minefields and decoys, and whittles down the mechanicals that the Bronze Whelpling has trouble sweeping with its magic damage. Both of them have the ability to cleave as well which is always a good situation for the whelpling, since it can come in at the end and double tap everything with its dragonkin racial.

I suspect the team would have the biggest trouble with a really beefy undead composition (e.g Weebom, Valk, haunt/consume corpse synergy and a non-undead third for some balance) - haunt soft counters these AoEs as well as none of them redistribute damage like Avalanche or the newly buffed Thunderbolt. The lifelike frog you used was really troublesome as well, it's hard to get rid of, being a mechanical with an aquatic attack - and frog kiss is always a really scary thing to go up against.

Vessy · Post by **Vessy** » February 8th, 2015, 8:14 am

Oh hi there! I suspect we face off a fair bit lol.
I'm pretty new to pet battling. Only just got into it during WoD.
My pets available is not quite as extensive and i'm still learning alot of mechanics... the hard way haha (like dodging doom proc)

I've definitely noticed a distinct difference facing your teams and everyone else. More fun right?
I do recall one of the pet battles where my mech frog downed your direhorn without taking any dmg lol. Very RNG!
How'd you find my Lil Tarecgosa teams?

Beast_mast0r · Post by **Beast_mast0r** » February 8th, 2015, 9:14 am

Any properly played team should beat it. With synergy or not ...

Myon · Post by **Myon** » February 8th, 2015, 11:28 am

Vessy wrote:How'd you find my Lil Tarecgosa teams?

Caught me off guard for a game or two! I'd normally prefer the Nexus or Azure whelplings, but in this case Lil'Tarecgosa is just tanky enough to be able to threaten to take down one pet with it on its last turn (with dragonkin racial'd Surge of Power). Not many ways to play around it too with Arcane Winds on the field, and it would've been a bad start for me if that happened.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » February 9th, 2015, 3:51 pm

Beast_mast0r wrote:Any properly played team should beat it. With synergy or not ...

I hate these posts, they really don't help answer the original question. Rather than post this, why not list a team/moveset that you would use?

Beast_mast0r · Post by **Beast_mast0r** » February 9th, 2015, 4:15 pm

Kel wrote:
Beast_mast0r wrote:Any properly played team should beat it. With synergy or not ...
I hate these posts, they really don't help answer the original question. Rather than post this, why not list a team/moveset that you would use?

Because by figuring out by yourself you'll learn way more than by just following a "strat" some random claims to work. For beating that specific team there's no need to use a "specific counter comp", without which it'd be impossible to win.
All of that, at least, in my opinion.

Basically my answer is: "I would beat it with basically any team without the need for a specific team composition". Of course, provided that you aren't using a team that is totally hard-countered by it. For example: use 3 frogs and win?

Vessy · Post by **Vessy** » February 10th, 2015, 12:42 am

Beast_mast0r wrote:
Kel wrote:
Beast_mast0r wrote:Any properly played team should beat it. With synergy or not ...
I hate these posts, they really don't help answer the original question. Rather than post this, why not list a team/moveset that you would use?
Because by figuring out by yourself you'll learn way more than by just following a "strat" some random claims to work. For beating that specific team there's no need to use a "specific counter comp", without which it'd be impossible to win.
All of that, at least, in my opinion.

Basically my answer is: "I would beat it with basically any team without the need for a specific team composition". Of course, provided that you aren't using a team that is totally hard-countered by it. For example: use 3 frogs and win?

Thanks for your useful thoughts.

Awq · Post by **Awq** » February 10th, 2015, 1:19 am

This is also partially a question on how to properly manage magma trap.

Hmm...

Ragnaros is a tough opponent. Ragnaros can either be quite weak, or extremely strong. The weaknesses of Ragnaros are its speed/the randomness/lack of reliable single damage move.

I personally have 2 different strategies against Ragnaros in general. Either I burst them down or I control the match. Ragnaros is weak against both.
Lets say that I have Rascal-Bot. I would Stun+Attack+Attack. Ragnaros has either already lost most of their hp, or you have ruined his combo. Then I would swap into another pet (to deal with Trap+Direhorn).
A burst pet ruins their strategy too. They have taken a lot of damage while they have just used their trap. Choosing your highest damage pet is a good choice.
Even using one of your burst combo pets is not that bad. One could, for example, use Spineclaw Crab.
T1 Bleed on Ragnaros, T2 Bleed on Direhorn, T3 BitW deals a lot of damage! And you can always recover with a heal if needed (swap out when trapped/heal up later).
Ah yes, heals help! It for example is a great idea to recover by using a healing pet (that soaked a trap) while he uses Sons. Survivability (tanky pets that still manage to do decent damage) is great too! One can eat a stun (be immune) and still do damage.

If I have neither burst nor control nor a favorable match-up, I would choose the most sacrificial pet to open with. I would completely focus on getting the most favorable match-up against the Dragon!

The type of trap management depends on the team that I am using. Do I have burst/control/tank/heals?

Currently, I'm trying to make an arcane winds team work to mitigate the stuns but trying to also not screw myself facing other teams in the queue.

Like you said, Arcane Storm gives a huge advantage in this match-up (especially when you build a team around it). I find Arcane Winds strong in most match-ups. It prob is my fav weather effect, a weather effect that works really well for me (in most situations).

Anyone have a non-cheesy team to beat this?

There are plenty of teams that are favorable. However, what works for me does not have to work for you.

I do agree with Beast_Master. Trying out strategies is a good way to improve your knowledge.
Things to keep in mind: Ragnaros does not have single target dps and is relatively weak against burst/heals, Bronze Whelpling is weak when it is slower, Direhorn is weak against survivability and can be bursted down (especially when it gets swapped in).

-Seems like the only non-RNG counters are critter/arcane winds/blinding poison with switch

The biggest weakness of this team is def the dragon. I would focus on countering this. There is some anti-synergy between DragonStun&Trap&DirehornStun. One could exploit the CC-immunity to their advantage. It allows you to control the match-up, rather than to be controlled.

Teroclaw Hatchling is a counter pet that comes to mind. It counters all three pets with Claw/Dodge/Heal when played well.

How do you counter this lil'rag/direhorn team?

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