Carry Pet Experience Reference

[Paladance]

On Garrison Menagerie:
Opponent: The Beakinator (a single level 25 rare pet)
Carry pet level: 23
Buffs: None
Result: 224 XP

T = 1.0

Just like I've mentioned on a previous page way ago.

[Jerebear]

Thanks! that validates what I remembered!

Unrelated info:
Amalia => level 20 carry pet no safari = 3625 exp. T=5.0
Sir Galveston => lvl 22 carry pet no safari = 3100 exp T=5.0
Durian Strongfruit => lvl 22 carry pet no safari = 3100 exp T=5.0
Dazed and Confused => lvl 1 carry pet no safari = 3625 exp T=5.0
Envoy => lvl 10 carry pet no safari = 3800 exp T=5.0 (2 enemies)
Robert Craig => level 10 carry pet no safari = 4750 exp T=5.0
Odrogg => lvl 14 carry no safari = 4600 exp T=5.0
Trapper Jarrun => lvl 14 carry no safari = 4600 exp T=5.0
Nightwatcher Merayl => Level 9 carry no safari = 4725 exp T=5.0
Xorvasc => lvl 15 carry no safari = 4500 exp T=5.0
Tiffany Nelson => lvl 10 carry, SotC = 14250 exp T=5.0
Fragment of Fire => lvl 1 carry, SotC = 10875 exp T=5.0
Rydyr (Beasts of Burden) => lvl 10 carry, SotC = 5700 exp T=5.0 (1 enemy)
Andurs (Beasts of Burden) => lvl 1 carry, SotC = 4350 exp T=5.0 (1 enemy)
Grixis Tinypop => lvl 1 carry SotC = 10875 exp T=5.0
Flummox => lvl 17 carry = 1690 exp T=5.0
Help a Whelp => lvl7 carry = 3680 exp T=5.0
Bredda Tenderhide => lvl1 carry = 3625 exp T=5.0
Ominitron Defense System => lvl 18 carry = 4050 exp T=5.0
Bohdi Sunweaver => lvl 14 carry = 4600 exp T=5.0
Varenne => lvl 1 carry 3625 exp T=5.0
Felsoul Seer => lvl 10 carry 4750 exp T=5.0
Mana Fiends => lvl 19 carry 3850 exp T=5.0
Aulier => lvl 18 carry = 4050 exp T=5.0
Catacomb Egg => lvl 15 carry = 4500 exp T=5.0
Sissix => lvl 12 sotc = 14175 exp T = 5.0
Madam Viciosa => lvl 19 = 3850 exp T=5.0
Nameless Mystic => lvl 20 = 3625 exp T=5.0

Splint Jr. => lvl 1 carry = 290 exp T=1.0
Vinu => Level 2 carry = 770 exp no safari
Thistleleaf => Bully. 900 for a level 6 no safari.
lil'idan => 368 for a level 7 no safari (1 enemy)
Chromadon => wild pet exp (T=1.0). level 8 carry pet got 374 no safari
Hungry Icefang => wild pet exp. level 1 carry SotC = 2175
Maw => wild pet exp. level 10 carry, SotC = 1140 exp
Rocko => wild pet exp level 6 carry = 360 exp
Stitches Jr Jr => 338 exp lvl 1 carry pet no safari Wild pet exp
Heliosus => 270 exp lvl 21 carry pet no safari T=1.0 wild pet exp
Blottis => 374 exp lvl 13 carry pet no safari T=1.0 wild pet exp

Shipwrecked Captive => lvl 18 carry pet, sign of the critter => T=0.5

Crysa => level 1 carry pet with safari hat = 2393 EXP T= 3.0

Hanos, Manos, Fatos => lvl 18 carry pet no safari = 81 exp T=0.1
Stitches Jr (WoD garrison) => level 22 carry pet no safari = 248 exp. T=1.0
Beakinator => lvl 1 SotC = 870 exp T=1.0
Eleanor => lvl 1 carry 290 exp T=1.0
Quintessence => level 1 carry 29 exp T=0.1

[Paladance]

Opponent: royal Florets (two level 25 rare pets)
Carry pet level: 23
Buffs: None
Result: 45 XP

T = 0.1

(compare: 224*2/10)

[Jerebear]

I'm about ready to start posting up some legion info (sorry it takes so long for this). With that said, I'm testing out a new format since my old one is less and less important:



Light Blue means you could hit 25 and possibly waste some EXP
Orange means you will hit 25 and waste EXP

I left out combinations of single pet treat buffs (only Pet Treat or only Lesser Pet Treat) because in today's day and age, you don't generally run with just one and adding every combination possible meant the chart would be too large. The things I tried to capture:
1. Always using Safari Hat since you always will want to when levelling.
2. Account for SotC
3. Account for both food buffs but not individual ones
4. Show the Top Hat effect for those who go all the way.

This format also makes it much more difficult to get *exact* exp numbers in the case where the game incorrectly rounds down. Before, I would put the number in manually, but with all the automatic formating formulas I use for this, doing that makes managing the chart very messy and error prone.

So feel free to comment on any of this. As a side note, this is the chart for the standard MoP/WoD/Legion T=5.0, 3 pet tamer battle.

My specific questions:
1. Are the colors ok? I tried to pick colors that were more color blind friendly. A light color for the "maybe" scenario and a darker color for the "will happen" scenario. I read that contrasting those two colors is helpful as well. The patterns I had to choose from would hide some of the numbers, so I went with color. Can't use symbols as it messes up the formulas.

2. Is it ok that the values might be +/- 1 value off? As I said above, manually correcting them is really hard to manage in this setup.

3. Are the columns chosen ok? I'm less likely to change this, but if you have a convincing argument, I might. I'm only doing a total of 6 columns, so picking what I feel is the best fit for those.

[Jerebear]

I didn't really receive any input, so I went ahead and made a lot of updates. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

[Paladance]

I'm very, very impressed.
I guess that most of us just lose their words in an "AWESOME!" gasp and this is why there's such a silence.

But these are the concerns and suggestions that are important now, so well. Do you have any interesting points on how to plan your training to get the "starting" (up to 10-15% exp bar) 19+ levels for the battle-training stone purposes? That includes picking up pets at a specific stage, of course. I know that Rematch recognises the idea but the display in a WYSIWYG way is yet to be achieved.

Also, SotC can make even T=1.0 battles viable, but that's just being picky I guess?

[Quintessence]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to keeping this guide up-to-date! The Legion updates are excellent.

I'm curious though, are the Outlands and Classic trainers in a separate section for a reason? (Outlands trainers seem to fall under the 7.5 exp section, but I could be mistaken? Not saying a change needs to be made, just genuinely curious.)

I've added a small edit to one of the Notes under the Experience Buff Bonus - very minor, just added clarification of what the "bonus pet experience event" is in case some weren't aware.

Going to echo Paladance: I'm super impressed! Thank you again for maintaining this very informative guide!

[Jerebear]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to keeping this guide up-to-date! The Legion updates are excellent.

I'm curious though, are the Outlands and Classic trainers in a separate section for a reason? (Outlands trainers seem to fall under the 7.5 exp section, but I could be mistaken? Not saying a change needs to be made, just genuinely curious.)

I've added a small edit to one of the Notes under the Experience Buff Bonus - very minor, just added clarification of what the "bonus pet experience event" is in case some weren't aware.

Going to echo Paladance: I'm super impressed! Thank you again for maintaining this very informative guide!

Thanks!

You're right about the 7.5x with them. I didn't include them in the chart due to the low level of the fights (sub level 25). They wold need their own charts and I kinda picked a set of info to draw a line in the sand for. As I get time I might go back and generate charts for each of those, but I am concerned that all those extra charts for the classic and outland tamers will dilute the guide for limited use. What do you think on that?

I should probably note the level of the pets int he section title and maybe put a little blurb in the classic and outlands tamers.

[Jerebear]

I'm very, very impressed.
I guess that most of us just lose their words in an "AWESOME!" gasp and this is why there's such a silence.

Thanks!

But these are the concerns and suggestions that are important now, so well. Do you have any interesting points on how to plan your training to get the "starting" (up to 10-15% exp bar) 19+ levels for the battle-training stone purposes? That includes picking up pets at a specific stage, of course. I know that Rematch recognises the idea but the display in a WYSIWYG way is yet to be achieved.

I'm not sure I 100% understand the question. What I think you are asking is for something that details which pets to start levelling or maybe a route / order of tamers to get pets to level 19? If so, I was more focusing on the info aspect of levelling versus the path algorithm. Not that I couldn't, but it would be a very subjective section to do (there are tons of ways to get to level 19...which do I pick?). I might not understand your question though. Can you clarify?

Also, SotC can make even T=1.0 battles viable, but that's just being picky I guess?

I thought about that. I wanted to balance the amount of info in the guide vs usefulness. The tamers are the ones more likely to cap you to 25 during SotC week. I know people still do wild pet battles then as well, but I am uncertain at what point I have too many charts. What do you think?

[Jerebear]

Quintessence,

By the way, I forgot to say thank you for the edits. I really appreciate it.

I should probably note the level of the pets int he section title and maybe put a little blurb in the classic and outlands tamers.

Done.

[Paladance]

I'm not sure I 100% understand the question. What I think you are asking is for something that details which pets to start levelling or maybe a route / order of tamers to get pets to level 19? If so, I was more focusing on the info aspect of levelling versus the path algorithm. Not that I couldn't, but it would be a very subjective section to do (there are tons of ways to get to level 19...which do I pick?). I might not understand your question though. Can you clarify?

Yes it was difficult for me to describe that. I was asking about it in a more "trivia" manner and not necessarily a part of a guide but actually it'd be expressed here aswell.
Basically, my goal is to get any of 19-24 levels with 0-15% of the exp bar so the pet is ready to use some battle-training stones on it without losing too much "middle" exp. I'm interested in seeing which pet at which tamer would provide that in a way similar to the Ril's lvl 25 table:

Showing that all would be difficult, but I guess it'd be contracted by a formula?

I thought about that. I wanted to balance the amount of info in the guide vs usefulness. The tamers are the ones more likely to cap you to 25 during SotC week. I know people still do wild pet battles then as well, but I am uncertain at what point I have too many charts. What do you think?

No need to chart really everything; just the opinions on these battles can vary because of that.

[Flohsakk]

Thanks Jerebear and you can add Environeer Bert to the 12.5x XP tamer fights (coming in 7.3)

[Paladance]

I wonder what are your thoughts on the incoming pet scaling for specific tamers.
If it works properly, then as the enemy pets "lose" levels, the equation peak would be shifted to earlier levels.
That means that e.g. lvl 1 pet could get more exp while fighting alongside level 24 pets, or "younger", provided these pets die.
A bane of those who want to keep all pets at 25!

So, what enemy level could be the best for specific levels of a carry? And perhaps the person of tamer, too?
(That of course if it goes into live. Don't bother with this right now. )

[Jerebear]

Well the base equation is:

(your_pet_level + 9) * (enemy_pet_level + 5 - your_pet_level) * other_bonuses

So technically for any given carry pet level, a level 25 tamer would give the best EXP.

so if you have a level 10 pet, then:

(10 + 9) * ( 24 + 5 - 10) * other stuff

is less than

(10 + 9) * ( 25 + 5 - 10) * other stuff

It scales linearly with enemy pet level (although quadratically with carry pet level)

[Jerebear]

Thanks Jerebear and you can add Environeer Bert to the 12.5x XP tamer fights (coming in 7.3)

Thanks! I'll do that when I get back from vacation.

[Paladance]

It seems I was thinking about something else but during writing it out I derped. I will eventually recall it.
Thank you and have a happy leisure.

***

So, telling about an alternative to level 25 was obviously wrong. But local peak (within the equation for a given enemy pet) is changed (e.g. 9,5 while against l23 instead of 10,5 while against l25). Same deal as with low level tamers. That doesn't mean it's really necessary to have it in handy, considering the abundance of battle-training stones.

[Jerebear]

It seems I was thinking about something else but during writing it out I derped. I will eventually recall it.
Thank you and have a happy leisure.

***

So, telling about an alternative to level 25 was obviously wrong. But local peak (within the equation for a given enemy pet) is changed (e.g. 9,5 while against l23 instead of 10,5 while against l25). Same deal as with low level tamers. That doesn't mean it's really necessary to have it in handy, considering the abundance of battle-training stones.

yeah, for a given tamer level, there is definitely a peak carry pet level. It's (enemy_level-4)/2. The reason it changes is because the equation I mentioned earlier has two "your_pet_level" instances, making it have an X^2 effect (or a curve). When you consider it from the pet level's perspective, there is only once instance of "enemy_pet_level" so it is a straight line effect instead, making an interesting relationship:

For any given carry pet level, a level 25 tamer is best (higher is always better), but for a given enemy tamer level, the optimum carry pet is the peak of the curve. it's all about perspective.

[Maryhaugen]

***EDIT***
This post is old data/info. The guide is currently found in the top post only. I may expand into this post as size is needed.


As an update:

The experience gained from tamers in Northrend, Cataclysm, and Pandaria is indeed all quadratic in nature. I've spent the last couple days gathering and analyzing data. Some interesting things discovered:

1. Pets at both level 10 and level 11 get the most experience per tamer battle in that set. They are the peak of the quadratic equation. As a comparison, using just the safari hat against any pandaria tamer, a level 10 pet will gain 5225 experience while a level 22 will only gain 3410 experience.
2. Rare and Epic tamer pets from Cataclysm and Northrend all award experience using the same formula. So epic vs rare for tamer pets doesn't seem to affect experience gained.
3. Pandaria tamers award 2/3 more experience than Cata/Northrend tamers (or 1.666666666667x more).

Once I get a lot more data and do some more verifying, I'll post the equation if anyone cares. I originally developed the equation using cubic interpolation of about 6 points, then guestimated it down to a quadratic using some assumptions and then went back and verified it using actual results. So far, all carry pet levels 1-22 have matched what the equation predicted. (I still need to do 23..can't verify 24 though).

Things to do:
1. I haven't nailed down the equation for outlands tamers since they are all different levels and I haven't figured out how non 25s fit into the equations for the other. It doesn't appear to be as simple as dividing by 25 and multiplying by 24...at least not on the surface.

2. I still need to verify against all levels for Cata/Northrend, but the 7 that I have done so far all match the expected equation.

3. I haven't tested to see if the food buffs and hat are multiplicative or additive bonuses. I'll probably do that after I collect all the other data.

EDIT: ORIGINAL opening post for this thread:
I was noticing an oddity in experience gained for my carry pet. A level 1 carry pet gets less experience than a level 12 carry pet. I could understand this logic except for when I went to look up the formula at wowwiki it shows:

[opponent level + 9] X [level difference + 5]

level difference capped at +2

That equation doesn't account for my own pets level since they are both way farther out than +2 level difference, so how is the level 12 pet getting more experience than the level 1?

Is there a different equation for the tamers? I wasn't able to locate one. I thought I remembered seeing a guide here with that info at one point, but can't seem to locate it.

As a point of reference, just talking about the pandaria tamers. Take a level 1 carry for the krasasong wilds tamer vs take a level 12 carry for Farmer Nishi. The level 12 gets more exp. In both cases wearing the safari hat (double confirmed hat on both).

I'm sure it is somewhere simple that I am just overlooking.

EDIT: as an extra note, the amount of experience gained seems to go down again at some point. It's almost like the experience curve is parabolic in nature with a peak somewhere in the teens.

Nice, maybe you search much for this. Thks

[Jerebear]

Thanks Jerebear and you can add Environeer Bert to the 12.5x XP tamer fights (coming in 7.3)

Since a few things may have changed since PTR, what team did you use to test this? I wanted to retest it out before adding.

[Paladance]

Yes Crysa and Bert are the same.

This excerpt from Squirt + safari hat; I don't think we have many opportunities to do that. What perhaps means there is no purpose to contain it, but maybe it tells a bit more about the mechanic itself?


Sorry for no initial data. They had above 20% into these levels afterwards. I think they had been 1 earlier each of them counting by full numbers; more like 1.25 of actual values.

Also, you should remove or modify this quote:

Currently only Squirt gives decent experience. She provides experience as if she were a Cataclysm or Wrath tamer (T = 3.0).

As we know now that she was buffed, and the new value is contained in another section.