5.2 Fluxfire -- a new AoE team?

[Poofah]

From the PTR notes, we know that Fluxfire Feline is getting his Wind-Up taken away, and he'll no longer be one-shotting everything in sight. But the ability that's set to replace Wind-Up is actually pretty interesting. It's called Flux and you can check out the ptr fluxfire on wowdb.

Flux deals 12 base damage to the frontline pet and 9 base damage to the backline, for a total of 30 base damage and an ATK ratio of 1.5. So we have exactly the same issue of stacking multipliers that old Fluxfire had: you can combine Supercharge or Prowl with an ability with an intrinsically high ATK ratio. In this case, let's look at a breed 8 Fluxfire (322 power):

Flux deals 12+(12/20)(322) = 205 damage to the frontline, and 9+(9/20)(322) = 154 damage to the backline

and now let's add Prowl, to get 2.5*205 = 513 damage to the frontline, and 2.5*154 = 385 damage to the backline.

Old Fluxfire could do ~1800 damage in 3 turns. New Fluxfire can do ~1200 damage in 2 turns, but it's spread out between all of the opponent's pets. It's not quite as convenient, but it's still a ton of damage, and I bet we can build a team around it. It also has one nice advantage: even if the frontline pet dodges the Flux, the backline pets will still take damage.

The team would probably look something like this: Fluxfire, Fluxfire, Brilliant Kaliri. The first two pets are there to blast as much AoE damage as possible, and the last pet is a fast hard hitter that can kill low health opponents before they can retaliate. In hypothetical other games this last pet might be called a 'sweeper': it could be a Kaliri/Owl, a Moth, Enchanted Broom, Peddlefeet, a breed 5 Nether Faerie Dragon, a breed 5 Flayer, etc.

A hypothetical turn sequence:

Fluxfire1 -- Prowl, Flux, swap out
Fluxfire2 -- Prowl, Flux, Claw/Pounce until dead
Fluxfire1 -- If near death, Flux; otherwise Prowl, Flux, Claw/Pounce until dead

At this point, assuming each Fluxfire lives for 3 turns, you've put out 1575 damage to their frontline pet and 884 to their backline. If each Fluxfire can live for 4 turns, you've put out 2227 damage to their frontline pet and 1095 damage to their backline. Now your sweeper steps in and faces 2 or possibly 3 pets that should have fairly low health, and uses its speed advantage plus cooldowns to kill them--for example Kaliri can use Predatory Strike to kill a <650 health pet before it can take an action.

This team is a bit gimmicky, but it puts out a ton of damage, and unless you can kill the Fluxfires in 2 turns, there is really only one ability that can prevent your backrow from taking 700+ damage in 5 turns. That ability is Sandstorm, which cuts Flux damage roughly by half. Unfortunately, Anubisath Idol is everywhere and will only be stronger in 5.2, so he represents a major obstacle for this team (and AoE strategies in general). Nonetheless, I think this has some real potential to be a fun comp to play with.

[Poutinette]

I think Prowl just benefit the damage on the active pet.

[Poofah]

That's the way it works on live, yes. Supercharge/Prowl say 'increases the damage of the next attack', and after dealing damage to the frontline pet, the buff expires and doesn't affect the damage to the backline pet (for example with Personal World Destroyer, using Supercharge + Quake).

But, the PTR notes have said that Supercharge/Prowl are changing, to give bonus damage for 1 round, instead of next attack. So, hopefully this means it will affect all portions of an AoE for that turn. I suppose it's possible that it will have both restrictions, ie 'next attack' and 1 round duration. If that's the case, then it probably won't work.

[Makominami]

This might be crazy =/

[Deepfriedegg]

I guess not only Sandstorm will ruin this strategy. It is even weaker against any Conflagrate / Winter teams - and there are LOTS of them. Conflagrate teams can kill your Fluxies (breed 8) before they deal ANY damage at all.

Basically, I wouldnt mind using Flux team in PvE, but in PvP it has very large disadvantage against probably the most used pet family. Just my opinion ,though

[Cabadath]

Unfortunately, Anubisath Idol is everywhere and will only be stronger in 5.2, so he represents a major obstacle for this team (and AoE strategies in general). Nonetheless, I think this has some real potential to be a fun comp to play with.

What do you mean when you say that Anubisath Idol will be stronger in 5.2? As far as I know he gets the reflection -> deflection nerf, but otherwise stays the same. Are there more changes I am not aware of? Or do you mean that Anubisath Idol will become stronger relative to the other pets and their abilities? (By this I mean that if Anubisath only get the deflection nerf and otherwise stays the same, and other abilities/pets gets nerfed, Anubisath Idol will essentialy be better than he was before)

[Poofah]

I guess not only Sandstorm will ruin this strategy. It is even weaker against any Conflagrate / Winter teams - and there are LOTS of them. Conflagrate teams can kill your Fluxies (breed 8) before they deal ANY damage at all.

Basically, I wouldnt mind using Flux team in PvE, but in PvP it has very large disadvantage against probably the most used pet family. Just my opinion ,though

No, conflag can't kill him that fast. Fluxfire needs 2 turns for Prowl+Flux, and even though he probably has to go 2nd that turn due to Prowl, there isn't a conflag pet that can kill him with 2 moves. Silver Dragohhawk needs 3 turns; Lil' Ragnaros needs 3 turns. Also, Conflagrate damage is getting nerfed by 20% in 5.2.

I'm not saying that Elementals aren't a problem--they're definitely tough with 2 mechs, and they might be able to shut down enough of your damage to win. They definitely can't shut down all of your backline damage though.

What do you mean when you say that Anubisath Idol will be stronger in 5.2? As far as I know he gets the reflection -> deflection nerf, but otherwise stays the same. Are there more changes I am not aware of? Or do you mean that Anubisath Idol will become stronger relative to the other pets and their abilities? (By this I mean that if Anubisath only get the deflection nerf and otherwise stays the same, and other abilities/pets gets nerfed, Anubisath Idol will essentialy be better than he was before)

A little of both. Deflection is a 3 round cooldown instead of Reflection's 5. So he loses a potentially large amount of offense, but gains some defense--and he's already one of the very best defensive pets. And since all of the current high-damage teams are getting substantially nerfed, defensive strategies will be better relative to the field.

They're going to have to take a close look at Sandstorm eventually (and possibly weathers in general). Modest cooldown, higher than normal damage, and applies a blanket damage reduction shield that protects the back row and persists through pet swaps. This last part is a really big deal, since the only ways to kill tank pets are to use high damage moves or to catch them after a swap before they can set up their shields/heals. The high damage moves are getting nerfed, and Sandstorm's shield lasts 9 turns regardless of swaps. And as far as AoE goes, there's something like 8 different AoE moves that are spread across 70+ pet, so you'd think AoE would be a viable strategy -- yet Sandstorm single-handedly crushes all of them.

[Adorich]

Fluxfire1 -- Prowl, Flux, swap out
Fluxfire2 -- Prowl, Flux, Claw/Pounce until dead
Fluxfire1 -- If near death, Flux; otherwise Prowl, Flux, Claw/Pounce until dead

You're totally missing the point of the fff nerf. Blizzard never intended players to use 2 or 3 of the same pet in one battle. They also never intended players to totally ignore the family of the opponent they are facing. 5.2 is blizzard's attempt to fix this.

On the 5.2 ptr, FFF is great against critters, but not much else. 'Flux' is rather disappointing considering what it's replacing and fff is dead before doing significant damage to back line pets. It's not in any way the "beast" it is currently on live servers.

Learn to play strong vs. weak before 5.2 or be very frustrated when 5.2 hits. Three fff or two fff and an Idol isn't going to work anymore.

[Deepfriedegg]

No, conflag can't kill him that fast. Fluxfire needs 2 turns for Prowl+Flux, and even though he probably has to go 2nd that turn due to Prowl, there isn't a conflag pet that can kill him with 2 moves. Silver Dragohhawk needs 3 turns; Lil' Ragnaros needs 3 turns. Also, Conflagrate damage is getting nerfed by 20% in 5.2.

My bad, I totally forgot about the mechanical "racial"... So - almost all conflag pets will kill the FFF with two moves, be it either Scorched Earth + Conflagrate or Flamethrower + Conflagrate. Now the question is: Is the conflag pet fast enough (289+) to not allow the FFF to strike one more time? Most of them are not, probably only some breeds of some Dragonhawks.

But Lil' Ragnaros still will kill FFF with two moves even with the racial:
FFF has 1237 health. Lil Rag goes: Flamethrower hits for 443 + Flamethrower DoT 147 (FFF has 647 HP left and Prowls); first Conflagrate hits for 738 (FFF dies and rezzes), second Conflagrate finishes off. And some stronger pets COULD kill it, too, with a lucky first Conflagrate crit.

[Poofah]

You're totally missing the point of the fff nerf. Blizzard never intended players to use 2 or 3 of the same pet in one battle. They also never intended players to totally ignore the family of the opponent they are facing. 5.2 is blizzard's attempt to fix this.

I think you're missing the point of my post. I'm not angling for ways to keep using Fluxfire to beat tamers. I'm pointing out that if PTR Fluxfire works the way it appears (Prowl/Supercharge lasting 1 round, and Flux dealing 12 frontline/9 backline), then it will still do a disproportionately large amount of damage, although it will require a slightly different setup to take advantage of. Blizzard's intent doesn't mean much if they screw up the implementation. But then again, Prowl/Supercharge may still be limited to 1 attack *and* 1 round, in which case Prowl+Flux will be terrible, and FFF will probably never be used except possibly to kill Sludgy.

But Lil' Ragnaros still will kill FFF with two moves even with the racial:

Yes, I didn't realize it but this is true -- mostly because Prowl just barely drops FFF below Rag's speed. The breed 5 FFF would still get to go first and would get off its Prowled Flux.

[Adorich]

I think you're missing the point of my post. I'm not angling for ways to keep using Fluxfire to beat tamers. I'm pointing out that if PTR Fluxfire works the way it appears (Prowl/Supercharge lasting 1 round, and Flux dealing 12 frontline/9 backline), then it will still do a disproportionately large amount of damage, although it will require a slightly different setup to take advantage of. Blizzard's intent doesn't mean much if they screw up the implementation. But then again, Prowl/Supercharge may still be limited to 1 attack *and* 1 round, in which case Prowl+Flux will be terrible, and FFF will probably never be used except possibly to kill Sludgy.

After testing on the ptr (S/S FFF), I can confirm that both supercharge and prowl last 1 attack: the backline attacks of flux do not benefit from prowl or supercharge. Flux also has a 3 round cooldown and does strong damage to beasts. At level 25 that's 140ish damage to backline pets.

In 5.2, FFF are in no way OP. Flux is horrible and even after all these nerfs, FFF still has really low health. I doubt many players will use this pet at all. Blizzard nerfed it really hard.

[Poofah]

After testing on the ptr (S/S FFF), I can confirm that both supercharge and prowl last 1 attack: the backline attacks of flux do not benefit from prowl or supercharge.

Well, that kills the AoE team idea entirely. Thanks for testing it out.

They went to the trouble of buffing Arcane Explosion (however slightly), and there were already 70+ pets that have an AoE ability, so I thought for sure they were trying to encourage AoE strategies. Ah well.

[Breehit]

So, now that Fluxfire Feline is out of the picture, what will be the most useful, all-around, go-to pet in the game?

[Tahsfenz]

So, now that Fluxfire Feline is out of the picture, what will be the most useful, all-around, go-to pet in the game?

Might end up being more situational, though I've been hearing enchanted broom come up & mr. Wiggles/robo bear combo.

[Deepfriedegg]

Might end up being more situational, though I've been hearing enchanted broom come up & mr. Wiggles/robo bear combo.

Well, Mr.Wiggles with Yellow Moth (P/P) hits harder. Also Yellow Moth dmg is distributed into more hits so one miss/dodge doesnt hurt that much. Also Moth can use cocoon strike to add up some survivalability. Add to it the fact that Conflag or Blizzard teams, that are quite common, will chew on your robo cub.