Learn to PVP to improve your strategy

[Wargazm]

I am amazed at how many people do not like the PVP aspect of the pet battles. Soon many of you-as I have - will get bored with the tamers and pve aspect. I currently have over 50 pets at level 25 and very rarely get beat 2 manning all the tamers in Panderia including the elites using the same combo on every one. I start a new level 1-3 every day and by the time I am done in Panderia I will have easily leveled it to 25 . They use the same moves every time and are easy to beat once you have figured it out.
I win approximately 90% of my pvp battles with a combo I have learned there. I was using an emperor crab-FFF and an Onyxian whelp when I started-now none ever get used. You need to learn to swap pets often-heal your killers and do not let them absorb unnecessary dmg and have in your combo a soaker pet to swap to that can heal itself and preferably the team. I have most of the bought pets including grunty and deathy but the best combo I have found revolves around the idol and crawdad and I usually use a fel flame. Learning the strategy of when to switch so that your hard hitters are able to get the turns back to use their best abilities and the "wish' from the crawdad will bring them back to full strength. I NEVER get beat with that combo agst fff combos . With that being said I just had my rear handed to me by a combo using a broom - a crawling hand and a fungal abomination that kept me switching my preferred pets and doing long term dmg to my back pets as they swapped em out-A new strat that I have to learn to overcome or join.
The idol is OP now as whenever anyone launches a bomb or effect that takes several rounds you simply swap him in and the reflect makes it and hit the enemy. The most OP and not used much is the "wish" from the crawdad-Incredible health and dmg soaker using mists-Used correctly you can continually swap him in and between wish [which reproduces 50% health] and renewing mists bring your dmged killer back to full health with all his abilities off the timer. I rarely use him to attack but with surge[which always goes first] he is useful to finish off the dmged pets also.
Get into PVP and learn first hand how these abilities can be used and played and you will learn much more quickly than reading these forumns. You will see what pets you need to pursue and add to your arsenal and which are basically worthless.
Combos that work best are combos with 'soakers" such as the crawdad or emperor crab-"Killers" such as your elementals or Runt or Slayer and at least 1 reflector and the more heals the better. These magic undead combos that make you swap pets when you dont want to are hard to deal with also. All are in game attainable pets! Get in there and learn first hand what strategy and combo works best for you.

[Saa]

Agreed, I personally love the pvp element of pet battles.

I'm currently rocking

p/p Jade Oozling for double dots, 25% increased damage and a nice drain / heal. Swapping him in when someone's built up the FFF one shot hitter is a great way of crippling the damage as he's a magic pet. 3 damage schools make him versatile as hell.

h/p Fel Flame for conflagrate as my finisher and a weather change in case someone pops sandstorm (really hurts the dots).

p/s Giant Bone Spider. This guy is so much fun. Siphon Life + his second dot then force swap the opposing pet. Rinse and repeat for as long as your opponent will allow it. With luck you'll have 3 siphon lifes healing a tonne of damage. This is usually the pet I open with.

I have trouble with crabs on occasion as shell ruins the dots a bit and the Fel Flame is weak against him so bursting it down can be tricky but then it's all good not being totally invulnerable and to have challenging fights. The Anub Idol can be irritating if they've taken stoneskin instead of reflect but the oozes drain hurts humanoids a lot so I can usually plough through him with that move alone.

Pvp battling is a lot of fun and I'd highly recommend more people try it out.........losing isn't that bad and with practice you may find your win loss ratio going up

I'd also encourage more people to post their teams set ups, why those choices were made and how you use them to encourage others to try things out for themselves.

Happy battling

[Quintessence]

I agree that pet PVP is a good way to learn which pets and abilities synergize well with each other. It's also a good way to figure out which breeds are best for which pets/situations. It's not the only way to learn, but it's definitely an option. To each their own.

I can't speak for anyone else, but pet PVP just doesn't appeal to me, just like player PVP. There's no "rush" or sense of accomplishment after beating a person for me.

Not that that feeling's present when defeating a coded NPC either, but the reward from a successful PVE match (bandages, vendor trash, possible pets, etc.) is enough from PVE to keep me interested. In PVP, the main reward is the "rush" and I may be in the minority, but I just don't feel it. Perhaps I just don't have enough competitiveness in me. ^^;

[Poofah]

Perhaps I just don't have enough competitiveness in me.

I'm pretty competitive, but without any tangible reward I find pet PvP kind of pointless. PvP balance is a mess at the moment, but they're clearly making an attempt to balance it in 5.2. But they're not adding any incentive. I think you get 15 achievement points as the grand total reward for pet PvP accomplishment, whereas pet PvE and regular PvE already have tons of actual pets as rewards, and are getting more in 5.2.

Maybe they're waiting until they're satisfied that there aren't any broken teams before they add genuine rewards for pet PvP? I hope this is the case. PvP has the potential to be really interesting and keep people invested in pet battles, which in turn will funnel development time into them. But without rewards for doing it, people will quickly find their time better spent farming up the latest PvE pet.

[Saa]

But without rewards for doing it, people will quickly find their time better spent farming up the latest PvE pet.

This is where we differ then my friend. With the exception of the summer AQ guardling, I have every pet I want to farm. After leveling a couple of pets to 23-25 during the course of my pet dailys, I find myself at a loss pve-wise. I've even managed to get my hands on 2 x rare Minfernals without having to 'upgrade' them. So for me, and hopefully for others, it's the application of these new found level 25s in a pvp setting, against a real human opponent that floats my boat.

Whilst the rewards are non existent in 5.1, 5.2 beckons with the promise of upgrade stones from pvp battling which for me is a more interesting way of gaining them than endless grinding of wild pets with scripted response.

I don't say this in a 'hurr hurr l2pvp' manner and hope it hasn't come across this way. I do however feel that endlessly levelling pets to 25 with no intention of using them for anything other than ......more wild pet grinding is, to say the least, unsatisfying.

[Deepfriedegg]

Before I came up with following line-up, I had 35 victories in PvP. Now I have 81 (well, I only started with pet battles in January...) and that team had 3 losses which I will describe later.

[pet]Lil' Ragnaros[/pet] 1/2/1 - Flamethrower (395) then double Conflagrate (987) with Flamethrower Dot (99) and if opponent is not dead, another Flamethrower (for the dot) will do the job. Not many people start with critters so starting with Lil Rag is a good idea.
FLuxfire Feline - nothing new can be said
Anubisath Idol - dtto

This team rocked... I used it on my attempts to get No Time To Heal achievement (win 5 consecutive pvp battles with letting a single pet die). I have lost 3 times with this team in 49 games. Twice it was because of trying to get the achievement (you lose lots of damage done like that) and it happened twice that opponents last superfast and almost dead pet luckily killed my Anub Idol and then finished both Lil Rag and FFF without letting them strike...
The third loss came when I faced team consisting of Searing Scorchling, FFF and, you guessed it, Anub Idol.
Rag and Scorchling died the same round. Then we had both S/S FFFs but opponent started all turns. I was stupid not to switch Anub in... so he killed my FFF without a scratch. I came with Anub, he built up and because I thought he would know that im going to use Reflection and would pass, I did normal attack but missed he passed. Then I used Reflection and he passed, then he unleashed on me and my Anub was dead
Anyway, this team will not live long.

[Deepfriedegg]

p/s Giant Bone Spider. This guy is so much fun. Siphon Life + his second dot then force swap the opposing pet. Rinse and repeat for as long as your opponent will allow it. With luck you'll have 3 siphon lifes healing a tonne of damage. This is usually the pet I open with.

Never knew about Giant Boner Spider but he looks to be a big fun. The speed points are kind of wasted on an undead because slow undead always gets two rounds after death so they would be better on H or P but anyway. Anyway, how does Death Grip work? It is supposed to switch into battle the pet with lowest healt. Anyway, he seems to be killing stuff rather slow

Anyway, I must admit that I really like PvP aspect of pet battles. They are doing good job with balancing it in 5.2, except for maybe overnerfing FFF. 20% nerf to Conflagrate seems about fine, Supercharge down to 125% seems also legit. Deflection is still good better than dodge for slow pets. But as Poofah said, there need to be rewards in order to incentivize players to play PvP more. I would love to see some ranking implemented in 5.3/5.4 and some new pet rewards for PvP, too

[Saa]

Never knew about Giant Boner Spider but he looks to be a big fun. The speed points are kind of wasted on an undead because slow undead always gets two rounds after death so they would be better on H or P but anyway. Anyway, how does Death Grip work? It is supposed to switch into battle the pet with lowest healt. Anyway, he seems to be killing stuff rather slow

Unfortunately p/s is the only flavor the Giant Bone Spider comes in so there's no other choice. And Death grip itself does sizable damage before the switch between 300-400, so you're sending a pet to the back row dripping in dots and a chunk of health missing from the grip.

[Stabya]

Actually the reason I got bored with PVP, is you dont get much from it.

Once I won my 50 pvp battle achieve, I went back to levelling pets and trying to get battle stones.

Allowing battle stones from PVP battles for 5.2 and Nerfing FFF and Anub Idol is a step in the right direction.

A few more PVP achieves and rewards might help.

Pro's to PVP Pet Battles (Pre 5.2)

One Realistic Achievement (50 PVP wins - This actually Qualifies as a CON also)
A greater Challenge

Con's to PVP Pet Battles (Pre 5.2)

An annoying Lack of Rewards
An annoying Lack of Achievements
Annoying Experience with O/P Pets

[Poofah]

The speed points are kind of wasted on an undead because slow undead always gets two rounds after death so they would be better on H or P but anyway. Anyway, how does Death Grip work?

Pet swapping ends the round, so if you're faster and Death Grip, you force the opponent to swap pets before they can take their action, effectively skipping their turn. Enchanted Broom works the same way with Sweep--it's extremely powerful.

I don't say this in a 'hurr hurr l2pvp' manner and hope it hasn't come across this way. I do however feel that endlessly levelling pets to 25 with no intention of using them for anything other than ......more wild pet grinding is, to say the least, unsatisfying.

Nope, it didn't come across that way. And I also find wild pet grinding extremely tedious. I have all the wild pets beside Qiraji Guardling and everything remotely interesting is rare-stoned and lvl 24-25, and I barely do the tamer dailies any more. PvP is the next logical step, and I really like putting together teams and metagaming and all of that -- if there was even the tiniest bit of progression tied to pet PvP, I would do it in an instant. But in the absence of that, I decide to do something that will get me a pet I don't have instead (archy to get a Claw, accumulate gold to buy a Spectral Tiger Cub on AH).

[Stabya]

I like the progression Idea

Now that we have nerfed some ridiculous pets and abilities, this is the opportunity for Blizz to BUFF Pet PVP by giving us some shineys

How about Pet Honor Points that can be spent on Stones or Special PVP Reward only Pets?

I think despite allowing Battle Stones to drop from PVP, PVE will remain the overwhelming favorite now we have new pets to collect.

By making some pets only obtainable from PVP, and offering more achieves, this will make it more worthwhile

[Saa]

How about Pet Honor Points that can be spent on Stones or Special PVP Reward only Pets?

By making some pets only obtainable from PVP, and offering more achieves, this will make it more worthwhile

I like this idea as long as the pvp pet reward didn't end up like the FFF as a 'go to' pet for pvp. I've pointedly refused to use my FFF in pvp and just used a magic pet to counter as an <insert random expletive> to the bandwaggoners.

However the current problem would still exist, in so much as once you had these pets, you're back to your current lament.

Maybe 'rating' would be an idea though I would have no idea if it would be difficult to implement.

[Poofah]

However the current problem would still exist, in so much as once you had these pets, you're back to your current lament.

Totally true, but presumably it would just work like PvE--we run out of rewards and have to wait for the next patch to deliver new ones.

I like this idea as long as the pvp pet reward didn't end up like the FFF as a 'go to' pet for pvp.

Absolutely. If they wanted to be very conservative, they could just duplicate another pet's moveset and give it a new skin.

So far, the popular PvP pets are almost all wild pets or easily obtained tradeable pets. I don't think that's a coincidence--I think they actually have pretty good ability to predict what pets will be especially strong, and the 5.2 PTR notes indicate that at least they're learning in the cases where they screw up.

Maybe 'rating' would be an idea though I would have no idea if it would be difficult to implement.

Rating is a little dangerous because pet battles are supposed to be fairly casual, and a rating cutoff would be a brick wall for people who can't or won't do PvP at a high level. Everyone needs to be able to work toward the goal--people who are hopeless at PvP would get there slower, but they need to be able to get there.

How about Pet Honor Points that can be spent on Stones or Special PVP Reward only Pets?

I think this is a great idea. An actual reward for the 50 PvP win achievement would also be lovely.

[Stabya]

I think the biggest drawback to PVP pre-5.2 are

1 - Overpowered Pets and abilities
2 - Lack of Incentives to PVP (Reward and Achievement shortage)

One of the chief reasons people dont like Player PVP is that they say they stink at it

There are more reasons to stink at Player PVP than Pet PVP as PET BATTLES are turn based with less moves to consider, and with Lag and Framerate having no consequence. You can be completely un-coordinated and slow to decide, and still have enough time to contemplate and employ a pet ability.

Therefore, knowing Blizz is taking concrete steps to balance Pets such as FFF and abilities such as reflect, it makes PVP more accessible and even LESS of a reason to be bad at it.

That just leaves one last hurdle to bring more people to Pet PVP - Incentives!

Making Battle Stones available with 5.2 is a small but welcome step.

As for adding PVP Pet rewards, even if you completely copied an existing pets skill set, I can guarantee the fact that there is a new pet you can only get by PVP-ing, many collectors and pvp shy enthusiasts will come.

Bring it on I say.

[Drudatz]

The problem with PVP Pet Battles that the "rewards" are a complete joke.

- the xp feels like a kick in the face so low it is
- the only reason to do pvp at all is the Legendary Pet Brawler-Archivment and also I am 1500/5000
I can hardly see myself to do some more for just 10(!!!) freaking ridicules points
plus in pvp this RNG crap really hurts - if my pet is strong against the other it should hit and not be able to miss 3 times in a row...


so I prefer doing every Pet Tamer every day to level each of my pets to max instead of doing something completely reward less...

[Poofah]

I think the biggest drawback to PVP pre-5.2 are

1 - Overpowered Pets and abilities
2 - Lack of Incentives to PVP

Totally agree, and I think these are directly related. If they forced people into the current PvP environment in order to get shiny new rewards, they would only end up alienating people. Teams such as double basilisk or double snowman are completely broken, and they're broken in a way that makes facing them extremely unfun, especially for a beginner. So they really can't add rewards until balance is addressed.

The abusive teams are largely being addressed in 5.2, so we know they're devoting development time to pet PvP balance. The big question is: once they feel that pet PvP is balanced, will they follow this up with incentives and rewards?

I can't imagine they're not thinking about it. Pet battles turned out to be extremely popular, so much so that both MoP patches have significant new pet battle content. And whereas new tamers require development time, PvP would be recurring content without much development. All they need to do is add PetPvP points and a vendor, with new rewards every so often.

[Wargazm]

I agree that the incentives are not good at this time and the patch will change that.Just improving your game and strategy is personally satisfying enough to me. The reason guys say they suck at PVP is they are getting sloppy bad habits in PVE and agst the tamers. None ever change pets-pve and tamers is simply a joke- and non challenging whatsoever at the top end.You know what they are going to do next every time! The FFF is quite easily handled once you learn the strategys-reflection is probably op as it takes the opponents best cooldown shot and uses it agst them. Just learning how to make different combinations work together is much like a chess match however and you learn something new everyday by running up agst skilled cunning opponents.Dont be afraid to lose-learn from it and use their successful skills yourself. It teaches you what breeds to go after-speed is worthless in abt 75% of the pets and extremely high health pets can absorb a lot of those big blows! I personally get a lot of self satisfaction out of it and none agst mindless killing inferior pve comps. Now if you are still working for the achievements that is a different story, personally I have almost all the achievements accomplished I can do at this time and encourage you to work your way through them but after you have them all PVP is the place you will find yourself as end game pet battling.

[Polynices]

I'd encourage you to try paragraphs and spell-checking. It makes posts much easier to read.

Another problem with PvP pet battles is having your team locked. I'd love to be able to hunt wild pets for rares or leveling XP while waiting around for a PvP battle to start but I can't. I have to pick a good PvP team that might be bad for capturing and definitely won't include a leveling pet. So two major pet battle activities are in opposition and can't be done at the same time. Bad.

I've also had a few experiences where I face the same opponent over and over again and after I beat them once or twice they start fleeing from every battle until I give up and move onto some other activity. Lame.

[Wargazm]

oops: : Agreed my paragraphing didnt work

[Wargazm]

Another problem with PvP pet battles is having your team locked. I'd love to be able to hunt wild pets for rares or leveling XP while waiting around for a PvP battle to start but I can't. I have to pick a good PvP team that might be bad for capturing and definitely won't include a leveling pet. So two major pet battle activities are in opposition and can't be done at the same time. Bad.

I've also had a few experiences where I face the same opponent over and over again and after I beat them once or twice they start fleeing from every battle until I give up and move onto some other activity. Lame.

Obviously you are not very experienced as your facts you are stating are 100% incorrect. Make sure you know the facts before stating them in a public forum where others may believe what you say has truth to it.

You can have lower level pets on your team while being queued up and the system automatically sets you against a team of similar averarge ranking so that enables you to level while being queued. You can also engage in battle against other wild pets while being queued and if you find yourself finding that blue and being involved in combat to tame him you simply do not accept the invitation pop up when it presents itself. If you accept the invitation [you do not need to forfeit out]it acts like a forfeit and automatically takes you to your pvp pet battle. As simple as pve is it is hard to believe you are not carrying lower level pets and leveling at the same time you are taming and I can think of no viable pvp combo that isn't capable of 2 manning any wild pve combos.

As to the fleeing try experimenting yourself and change up your combo - have 2 or more teams ready. That is a problem but you can still use it to your advantage by experimenting with different combos when you have an inferior opponent seemingly the only one on challenging you.