Rematch 4.0

[Jerebear]

He still keeps draw stats, but a lot of the teams he shows don't have a draw yet, so he just doesn't populate a number. If you pause it at around 35 seconds into the video, he'll have some other teams showing, like the Ginsu brothers, which do have the draw stats.

I don't know how important it is to him or other pvp'ers to be honest. I'll see if I can ping him on Twitter or something and point him to this thread. Maybe some others will comment in the mean time.

EDIT:
Twitter convo link:
https://twitter.com/jere1227/status/709177113463627776

[Jerebear]

I don't pvp enough (wish I had more time!) but that "Draw" stat seems kinda superfluous and was wanting to know if it was important. If it is, what determines a draw? Simply that the battle lasts 75 rounds or more?

A draw occurs when both your last pet and the opponent's last pet die on the same round. Happens more often with undead pets and the undead round, but other things cause it. It happens quite often. It's not a win or a loss for either side. There have been and still are indepth discussions about whether "if you are going to lose" should you instead try to force the draw so your opponent doesn't win.

[Gello]

Interesting. I'll have to make some undead teams to test the event that declares the winner in the case of a draw.

Here's some potential win/loss(/draw) buttons alongside each team. The numbers are random and the panel chosen is its narrowest form (sorry for jpgness!).



Some thoughts:

• The tooltip of that side button would spell out Win: (number) Loss: (number) Draw: (number) with % Wins: (number)% with a (LMB Click to update).
• This style of button wouldn't have room to display Draw in the "Compact List Format" (the one on the right), but it can show the draw on the tooltip.
• If the Draw is 0 it doesn't need to display it and can look like the middle.
• It occurs to me it may be annoying to see those alongside all teams. Perhaps the "Show Win:Loss:Draw" option can be tab-specific? Right-click a team tab and "Show Win:Loss:Draw" is a checkbox.
• It can be made team specific too. Right-click a team and there's a "Show Win:Loss:Draw" so you can show the button only for teams where it's enabled.
• Is there a better term for "Win:Loss:Draw"? Team Score? Win Rate? Standing?
• Even if the button is not enabled/shown the addon can still store the wins/losses with the team and show them on a tooltip for the team itself.
• If automatic tracking is enabled it can easily count those when the button isn't enabled too.
• I'm open to other ideas for the button too. It can be made into an in-line text at the start of the team name too like Discodoggy does. Where to click to summon the dialog to increment a counter becomes an issue then. Maybe one of the round buttons like the notes and preferences?

[Hashat]

This is a great addition to an already great addon!
Not sure how others feel but I would actually prefer if the button showed win percentage and total number of battles, with the win/loss/draw numbers in the tooltip. Also being able to sort teams by win rate would be awesome, as that is the primary reason to put the record in front of the team name for me.
It may be unnecessary to show records for the PvE teams, but I wouldn't be annoyed by it.
As for term, Win Rate or something like Battle Record sounds the best to me.

[Jerebear]

I think tab specific would probably be a good idea, but if it is too complex, I don't think it would be a huge deal if all tabs had it (or didn't via option). I would have to try it out to be sure.

The W/L/D numbers are usually referred to as some sort of "Record" (Win/Loss Record, Team Record, Battle Record, etc.)

Hashat's suggestion of a Win rate sounds like an interesting option (with the tooltip having the win/loss/draw data). Win rate is normally determined by 100% * wins/(wins + losses + draws) from what I have seen so far.

Another data point to consider is whether or not you want to be able to sort by team record vs name. I know Disco gets that for free by using the record as the first part of the name. If something like that were implemented, then a per tab option would probably be more important. That said, I dont know how much of that is important vs just a side effect. PvP'ers would need to comment.

You might also put some of this up on the wow BNET forums and see if anyone there not on WCP has ideas for feedback.

[Gello]

A win percentage as an option (or breakdown of numbers as the option) is doable.

But along that line, if it was the only number on the button it might improve the aesthetics a bit. I can shrink it down and in the normal views it'd display in the lower right corner with the notes/preferences button pushed up a bit, just like how Breed shows in the pet list. So it wouldn't narrow the team list any further. In the compact view it'd list to the right and the space for the team name would be narrowed a bit still just like the above.

But if the number of battles (or the win/loss/draw) alongside the team is important (two numbers to display) it'd put an end to that which is okay. I can experiment a bit to see if two numbers in the corner takes up too much or maybe have the Win/Loss/Draw list beneath the team where the target would be ordinarily. The challenge there would be to make it appear clickable without ruining the symmetry of the team list entry.

A tab-wide option would be doable, but how about another alternative: Only have a win record button show if there's any record to show. To show the button for the first time would require right-clicking a team and 'Edit Win Record' or something to increment a win/loss/draw. Until then it would hide the button if there's no win/loss/draw, and show it if there's any there. If 'Automatically Track Win Record' is enabled, then the win record button would start to automatically appear on teams that you battle with. This would actually be simpler to implement than the tab-wide route.

With the above method, there would be no option required to enable it. Just adding wins to a team would enable it. But I'd probably add a general option to hide these buttons too in that case. If they wanted to track them automatically (it would increment wins behind the scenes with no involvement from the user) and are okay with looking at the tooltip of the team to see its win record instead of taking up space on the screen.

On sorting, if we have a tab-wide setting to show the button, is it okay if enabling win record on a tab also sorts it by wins automatically? Or would some want that as a separate option? So it would keep an alphabetical sort but still show the buttons?

If we use the above per-team method of showing the button, a tab option to sort by wins is certainly doable.

To keep things simple I'd like to have favorite teams still group at the top, and a custom sort would override any other sort.

Also, on the Draw stat: For those that automatically track wins, is it preferrable that the draw is only when the game ends in an actual draw? Or would it be preferrable if a draw happens when the game ends in a draw OR it exceeds a number of rounds? If the latter, I'd like to hard-code the number of rounds if possible. Is 75 (like the PBL uses) okay? A person can always manually edit a team's record at any time but I'd want to make the automatic counting require little maintenance from the user's end.

A neat side effect to teams storing their wins is the possibility of sorting pets by how successful they are, or showing a pet's win rate on the pet card. But I'll save that stuff for later.

I'll see what kind of mockups I can do today. And maybe post on the official forums. It's too bad EU players can't post there.

Thanks as always! I'm open to more suggestions. As I said, I don't pvp enough to trust myself on what's important for pvp so this feedback is really helpful.

[Gello]

A couple alternate styles (sorry again for jpgness!):



On the right is the win rate in a tiny button. I'm not a fan of that. It doesn't look that great.

On the left the pets are moved up a bit to make room for some text beneath them: "Wins: x (p%)". I really like the way this looks, and it doesn't make the space for the team name any narrower. But if that's to be a clickable button it's a very small area to click to summon the dialog to increment a counter.

Maybe a button to summon the dialog can be added beside the loaded team above the loaded pets? You could either right-click a team in the list to edit Win/Loss/Draw, or click a button beside the loaded team (where the team name is above the loaded pets). A nice side effect of a button there is you could summon the dialog to increment a Win/Loss/Draw without digging into the team list:



That loaded team "bar" intentionally exists in every view of the addon (except standalone single panel options tab) so the button would always be on screen regardless of view. I'd make the icon look like the Find Battle icon.

For Compact List Format there would be just one number in the team list, the win%, beside the team name. It's probably forgivable for the compact view to show less information.

I think putting the Win/Loss/Draw beneath the name of the team would inhibit long team names. I notice pve teams with a saved target usually have a short name, whereas untargeted teams (which is like all pvp teams) can have a very long name.

Of course having the Win-Loss-Draw beside the team name as if it was part of the team name (as people do now by renaming the team) is an option too. It couldn't be a different sized font and still wrap beneath the different font; so it'd be the same sized font but it can be colored red-green-yellow or something different than the name of the team.

edit: I should add, in a text format it'd be very easy to have an option to show either format: "Wins: x (p%)" or "W:x L:x D:x" or "x-x-x". I think we've decided Draw should be tracked regardless whether it shoes on screen or not. It'd show on a tooltip for the team or the button if it's not on the screen already.

[Discodoggy]

I'm not sure if I prefer the raw numbers or the win percent, but I think seeing just the win percent is more aesthetically pleasing. I like your suggestion of being able to toggle between the two.

On the topic of draws, Jere is right, I do keep track of draws. Some undead teams end up getting a lot of draws. For example, my Graves/Frostwolf Ghostpup/Ghastly Kid team is 321-26-13 (89.2%). Take out the draws and the team seems much better than it really is 321-26 (92.5%). You could always treat a draw as a loss (excuse me if someone already suggested that). The result is the same: you neither gain experience nor a win towards achievements. Yet somehow 321-26-13 feels like a better team than 321-39.

[Jerebear]

I'm not sure if I prefer the raw numbers or the win percent, but I think seeing just the win percent is more aesthetically pleasing. I like your suggestion of being able to toggle between the two.

On the topic of draws, Jere is right, I do keep track of draws. Some undead teams end up getting a lot of draws. For example, my Graves/Frostwolf Ghostpup/Ghastly Kid team is 321-26-13 (89.2%). Take out the draws and the team seems much better than it really is 321-26 (92.5%). You could always treat a draw as a loss (excuse me if someone already suggested that). The result is the same: you neither gain experience nor a win towards achievements. Yet somehow 321-26-13 feels like a better team than 321-39.

What do you think about team sorting? Currently it sorts by name, so when you type in the win record, it auto sorts them by # of wins. With the record being something other than part of the name, the sorting would currently revert back to the actual name, so it wouldn't have them in order of #wins. I *think* the 3 options would be: Name, #wins, win% (different than #wins since draws and losses can also change the % number).

[Gello]

Yeah I'm curious which is a preferrable sort, win% or total wins. If it's okay I'd like to narrow the option down to one. If it's preferrable to have both that's okay too.

Right now there's Custom Sort which overrides everything else. You can move favorites down the list and stuff. While this is enabled any other sorting is disabled.

Next, favorites list at the top. Unless many new sorts are added this favorites-first bit would likely stay this way for a win% or total win sort.

I was hoping to get away with a simple checkbox "Sort By Wins" or "Sort By Win %" on the tab menus. This would be disabled if Custom Sort is enabled. And it would sort by either win% or total wins, whichever you guys prefer.

After that teams would sort alphabetically.

The reason I'd like to stick to a single win% or total win sort is not for complexity of code (it'd be trivial) or any difficulty adding it to the menus, but to keep it simple. Turning off Custom Sort wipes out whatever sort the tab was in. So it can't join a list of radio buttons for a user to casually click through like they can for the pet list sort (it does pop up a warning but it'd be awkward). If Custom Sort didn't join a group of radio buttons there'd be a Custom Sort with a Sort submenu underneath that expands to the different sorts:

Code: Select all

[ ] Custom Sort
Sort Order ->  ( ) Alphabetical
               ( ) Total Wins
               ( ) Win Percentage

Whereas just a single option you can turn on/off (that would be disabled while Custom Sort is enabled) would look much simpler:

Code: Select all

[ ] Custom Sort
[ ] Sort By Wins

I'm posting a small update today that won't have any of this team win record stuff in it. Today's update will be a small one with just a couple bug fixes I'd rather not put off while working on this.

[Gello]

These are finalists for the views I think. Any preference? Suggestions for improvements?

http://i.imgur.com/luLf75c.png

I was worried that some pets shifted up and others not would look misaligned but it's not noticable.

Not sure if the green icon is obnoxious or not. I was thinking an option to display Wins and Losses instead of Wins and %Wins could display a red down arrow beside the losses.

The compact list format would get just a percentage button only on the right side of the button.

[Jerebear]

I don't PvP much at all, so take my input with a grain of salt.

1. I like the right one with Wins: xxxx (xx%). I don't dislike the green icon at all, but just like the right one better.
2. Probably can just do a tooltip to show the w/l/d record
3. Being able to right click the team and "Edit W/L/D Record" is probably a good way to have the option to edit, no need to have a button.
4. I think sorting by win% is probably the best route if you have to pick (as an option to just by name of course)
5. I wouldn't count max number of rounds as a draw condition, just an actual draw (both pets die on the same final round)
6. If the game doesn't give you "draw" versus win or loss, then I would count it as a loss.
7. I like the idea of having an option to change the display to w/l/d vs w (w%). Sounds more like a global or per tab option than a per team option. I wouldn't add a button to the team slot for it. Do tabs have a right click options menu? If so, somewhere in there.
8. Favorites always take precedence over other sorting options. I agree. Are favorites internally sorted with the same criteria as the non favorites (Are favorites all at the top, but in order of Win% and non-favorites below which are also sorted by win%)?

[Gello]

Thanks as always for the great feedback.

The Wins: xxxx (xx%) is my favorite too. That text is actually a clickable button (it highlights white and "pushes" when clicked) but there will be a "Edit Win Record" or something on teams' right-click menu too. In addition to a W/L/D tooltip for that I'll see about making a team card "tooltip" for the team that includes this and a bit of other info.

Tabs do have a right-click menu. I'll add "Sort By Wins" on the tab menu so each tab can be selectively sorted by wins (or by alpha if it's unchecked). But the option to display "Wins: xx/xx/xx" instead of "Wins: xxxx (xx%)" will be a global option.

And yeah favorites will sort by Win % also among themselves, the way it presently sorts favorites by alpha among themselves.

One more question for automatic tracking: if a player forfeits immediately upon entering a battle, should it still count as a loss? Or just don't count it at all? Maybe this is something to put as a global option too.

[Jerebear]

If someone forfeits, the game counts it as a loss for the forfeiter and a win for the remaining player. I would keep it consistent with that.

[Logansfury]

This is looking amazing Gello.

I prefer the "Wins:xxx (xx%)" view personally

[Gello]

Here's a view of the work in progress if any have feedback:

http://i.imgur.com/0w5cgvs.jpg

Compact list view on the left, regular on the right with a minimized in the middle.

In compact view it adds a win% only. In regular view it adds number of wins and win% under the team pets. In minimized view (technically all views since they have that loaded team bar) it adds a win%. (An "Alternate Win Record Format" option will change the compact xx% to just number of wins and regular xx Wins xx% to xx/xx/xx.) These are all clickable to summon the dialog on the left.

Clicking one of the colored plus buttons in that dialog increments the win/loss/draw, dismisses the dialog and floats a "+1 Win" over the button that spawned the dialog. Automatic tracking isn't working yet but if the rematch window is up (minimized or any view) when you leave a battle it will float the "+1 Win" (or loss/draw) over the loaded team's win% too.

You can right-click a team to open that dialog and manually enter numbers too.

The win record tooltip (kinda lost in the middle right) will get updated to look more like a table.

However, I'm not really satisfied with the numbers just sitting there in the blank space. I've tried different borders and backgrounds but haven't settled on anything that felt right. One problem is space is extremely tight, horizontally in the compact view and vertically in the regular view. Compact+single panel view has plenty of space fortunately.

One potential change in the compact view is moving the win% to the left of the preferences/notes buttons. The numbers would no longer line up, and it's maybe not ideal to have text running into other text, but it looks more aesthetically pleasing to not have the buttons all jagged down the list.

I'm considering making the % color coded too: green for teams 60% or higher, red for teams 40% or lower, yellow for teams 41-59%. But I don't know if that'd be too tacky.

I'm open to suggestions or ideas!

[Gello]

A new update is posted but it doesn't have the win record stuff yet, sorry for any disappointment!

As I just mentioned over on curse it's been a struggle to make the win record feature seem a part of the addon and not something obviously tacked on as an afterthought.

I've scrapped the small text in the normal team list view beneath the pets. (The xx wins xx% or Wins: xx (xx%)) The text was just too small and squished between the pets it was not something to read easily with so much happening around it.

I'm now working with something like this but it's not totally satisfactory yet:
http://i.imgur.com/PYlCqJ8.png

Here the win record is a single number, either a win % (left), with an option to show total wins instead (middle), and another option to color them by how successful they are. The number is placed as a notes/preferences-like "footnote" to the right of the team. I'll fire up gimp and work with the art a bit.

I think one thing that will help enormously is a team card to show the win record. So if you don't want the win records to clutter up the list you can hide them in options and just mouseover a team to see how it's doing. This will take some time to code. There were some fixes waiting to post (especially the stat range not working in 4.2.2) so I decided to post an update today of those bug fixes and continue on with the win record stuff separately.

[Gello]

I think it was time to stop tinkering with stuff and get it polished enough to post and get some feedback to work from.

So 4.3.0 was just uploaded to wowinterface and curse.

The changelog is:

• New "Win Record" system to track the success of your teams by manually or automatically recording how often they win.
  • To manually add a win, loss or draw to a team that doesn't have a win record, right-click the team and "Edit Win Record".
  • Once a team has a win record a button appears to the right of the team that says how often that team has won.
  • Mouseover of the button will display a card-like window with details about the team's win record.
  • Clicking this button will allow you to increment or edit one of its win record stats.
  • If you prefer Rematch to track your wins automatically, turn on "Auto Track Win Record" under Team Options in the Options tab.
    • During auto tracking, a win or loss is incremented for the loaded team at the end of each battle.
    • Your forfeits are always counted as a loss; your opponent's forfeits are always counted as a win for you.
    • The game does not recognize a draw. If you and your opponent's last pet dies on the same round, it will be counted as a loss.
    • You can still manually edit a team while auto tracking is enabled.
  • There are a couple options to change how win records are displayed, whether to display total wins instead of percent wins or whether to hide all win records, in the Options tab under Team Options.
  • Each team tab now has "Sort By Wins" in its right-click menu. This will sort the teams within the tab by their win rate.
  • The win record "card" will obey the Pet Cards & Notes options "Faster Pet Cards & Notes" and "Click For Pet Cards & Notes".
  • For those who have already named their teams to include win-loss(-draw): "/rematch winrecord convert" will attempt to pull those numbers into the new win record system and automatically rename the existing teams.
• New menu item "Backup All Teams" added to the Teams menu, to export all teams into text that you can save elsewhere to import when needed. (Right now this backup does not include breeds or win records. That will be added in a future update.)
• Some disabled menu items will now give a reason why they're disabled in a tooltip.
• The quarter-second delay before a pet card or note displays has been added to ability cards, which can be turned off with "Faster Pet Cards & Notes" under the Pet Cards & Notes options.
• The pet card of a pet in the team list will mark the abilities that the pet uses in that team.
• Removed "Hold [Alt] to view more about this pet." on leveling pet cards.
• Fix for clicking a pet card after a leveling pet card sometimes showing remnants of the leveling pet card.

Anyone's feedback would be welcome, but I'm especially interested in the feedback from those who rename their teams with wins/losses/draws already. Is there anything missing? Anything that can make it better?

For those who renamed their teams with win-loss-draw there's a "hidden" command you can do too:

Code: Select all

/rematch winrecord convert

This will bring up a popup for confirmation and then go through all your teams and strip out anything that looks like it could be a win-loss or win-loss-draw and turn those into an actual winrecord. If you do this I highly recommend backing up your WTF first. It makes some assumptions that could, with very low but non-zero probability, maul some teams.

I should also make a note here that after all the hand-wringing about how to credit draws in automatic tracking, it appears the UI has no way to determine if it was a draw. It considers anything not a win as a loss. I couldn't find any event or characteristic that would say otherwise. Even digging into the default code came up empty. So I'm going with automatic tracking recording just wins or losses. I may add an option to hide draws too, but that's not too important now.

[Discodoggy]

I just installed it and after one battle so far so good. The win automatically was added to the total as it was supposed to.

I was disappointed at first glance at having to a custom sort in order to sort by number of wins (rather than win %), but I realize now that the way you can set it up is more informative. I have the number of wins showing and the sort is by win percent, so essentially I can see the "best" teams and the number of wins at the same time.

On a side note, my first win with the new Rematch was against Graves/Murkalot/MPD, and with the win I leveled to 68. Two good omens!

[Gello]

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll add a sort by total wins. (I should listen to Jere more often!) To avoid the radio button situation described earlier, choosing to display total wins instead of the default % wins will make the sort by total wins too.

Do you miss not seeing the number of losses and draws? It's kinda funny but I've been struggling to find room in/around the teams to put numbers when it occurred to me today this whole idea was from the way you add those numbers to team names. It would be trivial to do that too without needing to rename teams or anything.