Against new class hall pets!!

[Quintessence]

So, why bother with Class Hall Pets, if they are not useful?

Unlike a collector that's focused on battling, a collector that is focused primarily on collecting will want to collect all pets, regardless if they're considered useful or not.

Many of the less viable battle pets are still desirable by some collectors, because the battle isn't the main gameplay for these players. It's the attempt to fully complete a collection that's the focus.

But Blizzard is now making it more and more difficult to maintain and reach that goal. They're adding more and more pets to activities that some collectors have zero interest in, or truly dislike with a passion. PVP and class-exclusive pets are just two examples of pets that can only be obtained by completing a specific activity.

It's pretty discouraging, disheartening, and it's turning off long-time collectors.

But as I mentioned in [url=http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16713#p133028]my previous response[/url], there are a few things that Blizzard could do to compromise so as to not alienate the very players that would actually be interested in these pets.

[Gráinne]

It used to be that the reward was always better when it got higher and harder ... with the Class Hall Pets, it has become just an after thought, to make it look like I'm being a good parent ... in many ways, I simply think that Blizzard simply does not care and figures that a new pet or two, will shut us up!

I couldn't disagree more. The battle pet game is not about getting 100 times stronger each expansion.

The last thing this game needs is more power creep that we already have.

I don't want the Idol, and the Crab, and the Gnome, and the Raven made completely useless by an influx of superpets.

Blizzard have been very good in Legion about introducing only pets that don't upset the balance, and did a decent job of flattening out the worst of the Warlords imbalances.

Adding more pets while maintaining a consistent playing field is fine.

What some people, including me, dislike is the way new methods of obtaining pets are being added. For me, it started with Graves, which I felt was a horrible insult to us all. These new "you must boost our participation numbers in X to get the next pet" moves are not quite as objectionable, but not in keeping with what we might expect.

[Uduwudu]

...
I couldn't disagree more. The battle pet game is not about getting 100 times stronger each expansion.

The last thing this game needs is more power creep that we already have.
...

That would be incorrect my friend. Legion brought out the purple pets for us to fight that we can not gt, which means that the Pet Battle game is also about it being stronger, and perhaps they feel that we're overpowered and need crappy pets to make sure we know where we stand ... off, to your room bad boy! ... is all I can think, just about!

...
Blizzard have been very good in Legion about introducing only pets that don't upset the balance, and did a decent job of flattening out the worst of the Warlords imbalances.
...

"Balance" is an illusion, and it will change tomorrow or the day after. It's been like that since day one of this game, or even Everquest before that. "Balance", for me, is my Warlock having to hit 6 keys to get a similar result to my friend's Hunter, who still does 66% of all the damage on 4 keys!

That's not "balance", and never was. There was way more "balance" in vanilla when we needed 40 folks to do Molten Core and it took two days ... everyone was weak, no gear, and you had to do these dungeons to be able to get the one piece so you could craft one piece of gear ... the only one for 3 months! This way, no other classes would get stronger.

...
What some people, including me, dislike is the way new methods of obtaining pets are being added. For me, it started with Graves, which I felt was a horrible insult to us all.
...

I agree here. And then the sadistic thing at the Celestial Tournament! I still am not enthused about doing it ...

[Ravyn]

I've been watching this thread and thinking about some of the responses all while leveling alts which I can honestly say are only getting leveled because of this new trend. At the same time, I am grinding honor, slowly but surely, on my main, and farming herbs on my gatherer whenever I can so that I can save up a million gold.

Any you know what? My playtime has never been as varied as it is now. What did I even do in-between raids before pet battles? Mostly I was afk. Sometimes there was a pet to farm, a whelpling, or a fox kit. Sometimes there were dailies, which I stopped doing as soon as I hit exalted and got my rewards. But mostly I was standing around in whatever the capital city was at the time. Now I'm finally getting proper use of those heirlooms. When I get tired of picking herbs, I switch to an alt and level it a bit. Once a day I try to play Heroes of the Storm with a friend I made here on this very site. I've got Graves, but he still needs it. And it's fun to work together to help us complete our collection. To be honest, I'm actually pretty happy with the state of pet collecting (yes, Graves is a pretty much a grind, but it's free and you get to try something new, too).

When I started playing, I knew I would never collect every single pet because I will never own an original WoW CE. Yes, I was very lucky and went to the invitational in Europe, so I have the much coveted Mini Tyrael, but I wasn't subbed during WoW's 10th anniversary, and I'm sorely missing the molten corgi. Since I wasn't playing, I also didn't buy BlizzCon tickets, so looking at my husband's pet collection with a Murkidan hurts a bit, since he really doesn't care about pets at all. The fact is, I will never, ever have a full collection and the vast majority of players won't. I'm ok with that. I collect pets because I love them. I love having them follow me around, making their little animations and sounds. I love the plain looking ones as much as I love the fancy ones, sometimes more.

I really understand the resistance to some of the new ways to collect pets. Most of us don't have a lot of time to play, and we don't want to spend the time we do get doing something that feels like a chore. At the same time, I'd rather level a new character than kill Garnia another 200+ times without ever seeing the ruby droplet (I ended up buying it on the AH because it was cheap). At some point, I will get the class hall pets. Will I ever get a Spineclaw Crab? Maybe, if I dish out the gold for it.

[Digem]

The problem to me is not having Class Hall pets... its about HOW to obtain them, because RNG.
If the way to achiev Class Pets its, less or more, like Shaman (that is my main since Vanilla), I'm ok with it, because soon or later I will able to obtaint every Class Pets, but if will works like Demon Hunter/Druid will be a nightmare.

I level a DH only for the pet, everyday I kill the Elite inmy Class Hall for nothing! This is frustrating...

I can accept a thing like this - IF - I know that its only a matter of time... it's can take a years of two, it's not a problem to me... but not if its only based on RNG, because in LEGION, RNG is against you... and this make to be a collector more frustrating than fun.

I did it day in and day out as a Havoc DH....the day I switched to Vengeance to start farming the hidden skin, I got the Eye. Now I've gotten two....I wish I could trade them. But seriously, I know it's totally RNG, but maybe swap specs....who knows, it might work for you, too! Or not, and it's all superstition....

You can trade them if you do it in a group and don't learn the pet but just trade it. That is how I got mine after months of trying on my warlock I was in a random group for it as everyday and someone won it. Said they had it already and traded it to me. Then left group never really got to thank that kind person but it was a real nice thing to do and I really appreciated it.
Still do it everyday hoping to trade it to someone else if I ever get one.

[Digem]

I'm honestly torn on this one. On one hand, I am of the opinion that some things should just be rare/ hard to get. Raid pets, pets from difficult achievements, pvp pets... having them, and having working hard towards getting them gives me a sense of achievement, and its nice to have something that sets you apart, wheter it is the sheer numbers of your collection, or your dedication to getting a few very unusual ones.
...

In some ways, though, this does not include those that have had the opportunity to get these achievements, and what not in the early days. For example, not many of us was EVER a part of the 16 hour days it took to clear Molten Core (8 each day so you got half done!) ... or the immense time requirement for a couple of the other ones.

In some ways, the game has gotten easier and the challenge requirements are almost nothing compared to what they were in those days, when a boss fight could take 20 minutes, or more, and you were scrambling for mana, to be able to heal the tanks and the groups.

So I got Lil'KT after 10 years ... woooopppeeedooo ... you know how many times I have used him since? I can't even remember if I ever have! So, someone that can play (today) a good 3 hours a day, can get up high fast, and to the World Quests and to 850 gear and get this and that ... and some of the other players ... no go. Tell my wife, girlfriend, or children that! I still manage an hour or two ... but when I look at the Old World, Pandaria, Lich King, and most zones, I only have maybe the quest pets do acquire, and they are not strong enough contenders for play, which means that you stick to the pets that you know you can get, which is not enough.

The Class Hall pets do not make any difference. So I get that pug for my shammie, and he has the same bad stats as most of the others, and is not a player per se, like so many other pets are. So, why bother with Class Hall Pets, if they are not useful?

Just strange option, and it feels like some programmers ... oh let's do this, it would be really cool and people will be happy that we gave them something better than a kick in the butt!

It used to be that the reward was always better when it got higher and harder ... with the Class Hall Pets, it has become just an after thought, to make it look like I'm being a good parent ... in many ways, I simply think that Blizzard simply does not care and figures that a new pet or two, will shut us up!

I would only like good pets, and worth while pets.

Problem is if they make to good of a pet/pets they will be OP and dominate the pvp part of pet battling see graves for example.
Also if these "good" pets are obtainable thru matters that aren't accessible for the average player it would again give huge advantages in the pvp and even pve part of pet battling. They are caught in a catch 22 situation

[Digem]

I've been watching this thread and thinking about some of the responses all while leveling alts which I can honestly say are only getting leveled because of this new trend. At the same time, I am grinding honor, slowly but surely, on my main, and farming herbs on my gatherer whenever I can so that I can save up a million gold.

Any you know what? My playtime has never been as varied as it is now. What did I even do in-between raids before pet battles? Mostly I was afk. Sometimes there was a pet to farm, a whelpling, or a fox kit. Sometimes there were dailies, which I stopped doing as soon as I hit exalted and got my rewards. But mostly I was standing around in whatever the capital city was at the time. Now I'm finally getting proper use of those heirlooms. When I get tired of picking herbs, I switch to an alt and level it a bit. Once a day I try to play Heroes of the Storm with a friend I made here on this very site. I've got Graves, but he still needs it. And it's fun to work together to help us complete our collection. To be honest, I'm actually pretty happy with the state of pet collecting (yes, Graves is a pretty much a grind, but it's free and you get to try something new, too).

When I started playing, I knew I would never collect every single pet because I will never own an original WoW CE. Yes, I was very lucky and went to the invitational in Europe, so I have the much coveted Mini Tyrael, but I wasn't subbed during WoW's 10th anniversary, and I'm sorely missing the molten corgi. Since I wasn't playing, I also didn't buy BlizzCon tickets, so looking at my husband's pet collection with a Murkidan hurts a bit, since he really doesn't care about pets at all. The fact is, I will never, ever have a full collection and the vast majority of players won't. I'm ok with that. I collect pets because I love them. I love having them follow me around, making their little animations and sounds. I love the plain looking ones as much as I love the fancy ones, sometimes more.

I really understand the resistance to some of the new ways to collect pets. Most of us don't have a lot of time to play, and we don't want to spend the time we do get doing something that feels like a chore. At the same time, I'd rather level a new character than kill Garnia another 200+ times without ever seeing the ruby droplet (I ended up buying it on the AH because it was cheap). At some point, I will get the class hall pets. Will I ever get a Spineclaw Crab? Maybe, if I dish out the gold for it.

Just link you and your husband accounts and you will have all the same pets as he does

[Peanutty]

Just link you and your husband accounts and you will have all the same pets as he does

That's not a great idea if she has pets that her husband doesn't... only 1 collection remains. Same with mounts.

Also I think it interferes with any account wide daily (i.e. most pet battles) as they can only be done once a day per account.

[Ravyn]

Just link you and your husband accounts and you will have all the same pets as he does

That's not a great idea if she has pets that her husband doesn't... only 1 collection remains. Same with mounts.

Also I think it interferes with any account wide daily (i.e. most pet battles) as they can only be done once a day per account.

I'm pretty sure it's against the ToS anyhow. Plus we have different last names so it would probably be troublesome. I will live without Murkidan. Only barely... but I'll survive

[Peanutty]

...
I couldn't disagree more. The battle pet game is not about getting 100 times stronger each expansion.

The last thing this game needs is more power creep that we already have.
...

That would be incorrect my friend. Legion brought out the purple pets for us to fight that we can not gt, which means that the Pet Battle game is also about it being stronger, and perhaps they feel that we're overpowered and need crappy pets to make sure we know where we stand ... off, to your room bad boy! ... is all I can think, just about!

Ever since pet battling has existed (back in MoP) trainers have had access to pets as high as legendary quality (orange), so it's not a new thing in Legion for trainers to have better quality pets. And a lot of trainers of all levels and through all expansions have pets that we don't have, from something as simple as Blizzy the blue owl (a skin I would love to have) to pets that have their movesets swapped for the trainer's benefit (off the top of my head Pandaren Water Spirit still has the Geyser + Whirlpool combo, though that's not the best example as that was a recent change).

Also who is to say what a "crappy" pet is? Just because you or I don't use it doesn't mean there isn't someone who does. There are certain pets that are agreed by most to be weaker (i.e. spores) but thanks to Family Familiar I've discovered that a lot of pets I considered "not useful" before actually do have a use.

[Gráinne]

Also who is to say what a "crappy" pet is? Just because you or I don't use it doesn't mean there isn't someone who does. There are certain pets that are agreed by most to be weaker (i.e. spores) but thanks to Family Familiar I've discovered that a lot of pets I considered "not useful" before actually do have a use.

Indeed. I think of Disco's use of the humble Prairie Mouse, for example, and the Fawn was my MVP for Family Familiar.

I also think that part of the "power" ascribed to many pets is that they are the ones recommended by guides.

And the pets recommended by guides tend to be the ones that many people already have. Aranesh, for example, is very strongly motivated to use common pets in his featured guides. And so we all learn when we begin that these 30 or so pets have the answer to everything. And so they do.

But might not someone take a different 30 pets, and do as much with them?

[Minivivi]

You can trade them if you do it in a group and don't learn the pet but just trade it. That is how I got mine after months of trying on my warlock I was in a random group for it as everyday and someone won it. Said they had it already and traded it to me. Then left group never really got to thank that kind person but it was a real nice thing to do and I really appreciated it.
Still do it everyday hoping to trade it to someone else if I ever get one.

Are you using Premade Group Finder? If so, how is the group listed?
I use a WQ addon and the Premade Group Finder for everything!

[Paladance]

Still, I think that in terms of the battling, there are some gaps to fill, but neither yet another [pet]Teroclaw Hatchling[/pet]s, nor yet another generic [pet]bandicoon[/pet]s/[pet]beetle[/pet]s/[pet]otter[/pet]s, could provide that.

On the other hand, I also agree with @Peanutty that some pets are underestimated because of no opportunity to discover their possibilities. That's a certain reason for which the 7.2 instance seems to be a step back.

Just keep introducing new pets, abilities, opponents. Don't worry that these won't be figured out. They will.

---

On the class pets, perhaps it's about time to think about a more aimed feedback I guess. Sadly, the EU thread has no responses, and the US… let's say I sort of judge it's too late to turn it into something more official, okay?
Don't get me wrong, this place is wonderful, and one can see there's no comparison, but currently it still feels "just a fan website", despite ingame references.
Maybe there is a dedicated Twitter discussion right now? @Quintessence

(Attempting to summary, beat me if you see something else )
As far as it goes, one can see that new class hall pets wouldn't have caused such agitation if they tended to be cageable, or at least they weren't RNG-dependable.
The alt problem (that was also debated regarding the transmogs I think) has both personal and external factors and not only pet gatherers could say something about that.

[Hawg]

With very few exceptions, you can't win at wow. You can accomplish goals, which are a personal victory, but you can't win the game. The reverse is true too, you cant lose the game.

When it comes to super difficult to get pets, just decide if you want to accomplish that goal. If not, don't worry about it. You don't win the game if you get it, and you don't lose if you don't get it.

There are a couple collectors on my realm whom I suspect must have spent thousands in irl cash to get some of the pets in their collections. I'm not willing (but admit I am tempted) to do that, so I simply exclude those pets from my goal, and I live with the fact that I may never get higher than rank 4 or 5 on my realm. I'm ok with that. I feel like I am succeeding as long as I can maintain 4, 5, or 6. My goal is to collect every pet I can get other than those on my exclude list (like the Vanilla CE pets, the iCoke China pets, etc.), make them all rare quality, and all lvl25.

I haven't decided yet if I will include the class pets in my personal goals (probably will since I already leveled alts for shammy, lock, and druid), but if I decide not to, then personal victory can still be achieved without them.

The TLDR version of that: its totally ok to not go for the class pets or the pvp prestige pets, just take them out of your definition of victory.

[GrosBonda]

With very few exceptions, you can't win at wow. You can accomplish goals, which are a personal victory, but you can't win the game. The reverse is true too, you cant lose the game.

When it comes to super difficult to get pets, just decide if you want to accomplish that goal. If not, don't worry about it. You don't win the game if you get it, and you don't lose if you don't get it.

There are a couple collectors on my realm whom I suspect must have spent thousands in irl cash to get some of the pets in their collections. I'm not willing (but admit I am tempted) to do that, so I simply exclude those pets from my goal, and I live with the fact that I may never get higher than rank 4 or 5 on my realm. I'm ok with that. I feel like I am succeeding as long as I can maintain 4, 5, or 6. My goal is to collect every pet I can get other than those on my exclude list (like the Vanilla CE pets, the iCoke China pets, etc.), make them all rare quality, and all lvl25.

I haven't decided yet if I will include the class pets in my personal goals (probably will since I already leveled alts for shammy, lock, and druid), but if I decide not to, then personal victory can still be achieved without them.

The TLDR version of that: its totally ok to not go for the class pets or the pvp prestige pets, just take them out of your definition of victory.

thumb up.

[Uduwudu]

Hi,

Love the replies here ... nice to see the differences, honestly, even if it seems I am showing what seems to be a negative point of view, but it isn't. I AM STILL PLAYING.

AND getting any pets I can get my hands on ... heck, my biggest issue now is having so many rocks for anything, that I get one pet and that turkey is 25 some 5 minutes later! Squirt? Ashli? .... nahhhh ... but it is OK, and I am (finally!!!! after how many years?) going through the Argent Tournament to get the other pets, with the Horde ones still needed and two more on the Alliance side I think. A breeze to do at 110, but (honestly!!! three times!!!) you should be doing this with an alt that is past 80 and needing some XP?

So, I'm getting enoough rocks and pets to cover my dinner just about!

I do not mind the pets being a part of the Guild Hall, or my Kitchen Sink! None whatsoever! I just wish that it was more "even" all around, though I find it weird that my Shammie (GuruGuru) can get his pet so fast, and my Druid (Uduwudu) can get to the next level on the Guild Hall, without doing a thing, and still no pet! ... and after a while and one or two other classes ... you wonder what you gotta do?

I think I will buy a ticket for a trip to space ... sounds kinda cool and just as interesting as collecting the odd pet here and there in WoW. Don't you think?

[Digem]

You can trade them if you do it in a group and don't learn the pet but just trade it. That is how I got mine after months of trying on my warlock I was in a random group for it as everyday and someone won it. Said they had it already and traded it to me. Then left group never really got to thank that kind person but it was a real nice thing to do and I really appreciated it.
Still do it everyday hoping to trade it to someone else if I ever get one.

Are you using Premade Group Finder? If so, how is the group listed?
I use a WQ addon and the Premade Group Finder for everything!

.


Yes I use the premade ingame group finder. Usually I type in warlock or ritual summoning and I find one. If none are up I make my own or there are a few locks already there. Usually I get in a group and done with this in less than 5 minutes

[Badpathing]

I am angry about these new class hall pets in 7.2. I don't want to roll a Monk, Death Knight or a rogue just to get the class hall pets. I rolled a druid, demon hunter and a shaman just to get the pets and hated playing them all. Now I read that they are adding more hall pets in 7.2 to force pet collectors to play yet more classes. I sent a message to blizzard that they need to get rid of these new hall pets or just make them tradable.
One voice wont do any good but if several of us complain about having to play classes we have no interest in maybe they will listen. Its bad enough having to play on the ally side to get the prestige pets but this just stinks having to play classes we have no interest in.
I would like to see all the hall pets tradable and when you get the horde prestige pet you should get the ally one also. If you feel the same way complain to blizzard maybe there is a 1 in a100 chance they will listen if many of us pet collectors stand together.

I'll just have to politely disagree. While I understand your frustration, I subscribe to the mindset that the game isn't created for you, or for me specifically and instead for many different types of players. Being so, it's hard to empathize with complaints that are essentially, "this isn't how I want to play".

I also think that there are acceptable grinds in the game; this being one of them. And as far as grinds go, the class pets are pretty simple. You get to try a class out, experience the new artifact quest-line, and hopefully have a little fun and reward for doing so. Honestly, I don't even know if it should be called a grind.

That's the class pet response.

Now, the faction pets from prestige, is, I feel another ball of wax entirely. I'm 100% OK with gating a pet behind prestige since, as I said above the game targets all kinds of players. I happen to not enjoy pvp much, but with the warden towers it becomes a slow but doable grind.

Now. Gating essentially the same pet behind each faction is, in my opinion, a lazy carrot and is not interesting. I think it's a mistake and is not addressing different player types. It's simply adding a grind for the sake of a grind that is redundant to boot. Content that is cross faction like this should really not exist in my opinion.

[Digem]

I am angry about these new class hall pets in 7.2. I don't want to roll a Monk, Death Knight or a rogue just to get the class hall pets. I rolled a druid, demon hunter and a shaman just to get the pets and hated playing them all. Now I read that they are adding more hall pets in 7.2 to force pet collectors to play yet more classes. I sent a message to blizzard that they need to get rid of these new hall pets or just make them tradable.
One voice wont do any good but if several of us complain about having to play classes we have no interest in maybe they will listen. Its bad enough having to play on the ally side to get the prestige pets but this just stinks having to play classes we have no interest in.
I would like to see all the hall pets tradable and when you get the horde prestige pet you should get the ally one also. If you feel the same way complain to blizzard maybe there is a 1 in a100 chance they will listen if many of us pet collectors stand together.

I'll just have to politely disagree. While I understand your frustration, I subscribe to the mindset that the game isn't created for you, or for me specifically and instead for many different types of players. Being so, it's hard to empathize with complaints that are essentially, "this isn't how I want to play".

I also think that there are acceptable grinds in the game; this being one of them. And as far as grinds go, the class pets are pretty simple. You get to try a class out, experience the new artifact quest-line, and hopefully have a little fun and reward for doing so. Honestly, I don't even know if it should be called a grind.

That's the class pet response.

Now, the faction pets from prestige, is, I feel another ball of wax entirely. I'm 100% OK with gating a pet behind prestige since, as I said above the game targets all kinds of players. I happen to not enjoy pvp much, but with the warden towers it becomes a slow but doable grind.

Now. Gating essentially the same pet behind each faction is, in my opinion, a lazy carrot and is not interesting. I think it's a mistake and is not addressing different player types. It's simply adding a grind for the sake of a grind that is redundant to boot. Content that is cross faction like this should really not exist in my opinion.

I agree 100% with your post. Class hall pets while maybe a little annoying allows for one to try out some different classes and who knows maybe one will like the play style of a different class. Since leveling is easy this one doesn't bother me at all. I was always a many alt person anyway as I like to have each profession maxed anyway.

Now the pvp pets are a different story. I never liked wow pvp as it has always seemed to be a gank fest or only over geared pvpers attacking under geared players. Just wasn't nor hasn't been much fun. So to have to grind pvp for these pets was a turn off to begin with. Now I have to do it twice on both factions? What if what makes me like the game is my faction identity? I have to forget about that for a pet?

These pets should be unlocked by getting pvp prestige maxed on one toon or be purchasable period. Forcing this on players will not make them like pvp but come to hate it. When will they learn this?

[Badpathing]

These pets should be unlocked by getting pvp prestige maxed on one toon or be purchasable period. Forcing this on players will not make them like pvp but come to hate it. When will they learn this?

I'll just reiterate that gating any content behind any sort of play-style is pretty much OK since the game caters to many different types of players.

The core of my comment was that it is lazy and uninspired to create gated content that is redundant across factions. Pushing players into new areas is fine, even if you don't like it. Pushing players into new areas for content and then making it redundant by faction disparity is just.....bad.