New Changes are bad mmmkay

[Adumbledore]

I feel like it's starting to seem like every time a new pet comes out that requires anything other than pet battling or extremely easy "outside" activities, people complain.

Pardon my french but are you STUPID? how is it easy to max 3 different DK artefacts???

3. I understand some people are getting super upset about these new requirements, but just because someone does not agree with you or does something you don't like does not make them stupid or indicate that they obviously don't play the game (referring to other posts attacking the devs here, not this one). Personally, I have very thick skin, but I wouldn't want anyone (on either side of the debate) to feel worried they're going to get personally attacked for having a different opinion.

I agree 100%. Name calling is going to do nothing to help support an argument, and being attacked for having a different opinion is ridiculous. We're a great community, and petty attacks aren't going to accomplish anything. We need to support each other as much as possible now, if we hope to have any chance of getting Blizzard to listen to us (whether for OR against the new requirements).

[Uduwudu]

...
3. I understand some people are getting super upset about these new requirements, but just because someone does not agree with you or does something you don't like does not make them stupid or indicate that they obviously don't play the game (referring to other posts attacking the devs here, not this one). Personally, I have very thick skin, but I wouldn't want anyone (on either side of the debate) to feel worried they're going to get personally attacked for having a different opinion.

Kiella, none of the write ups, and I just cleaned up one of them, is meant to be an insult, if they have thick skin, like you do, and the like. I still play the game, so my appreciation of it is still there somewhere, don't you agree?

I've never, EVER, and this goes back to EQ, which means over 21 years, met a programmer that played a game more than ... ohh let's be fair ... 2 to 3 hours per week. They get bored with it, is my experience, and one of them has created over 25 games for cellphones and is a manager for a company creating these things. And they like making fun of this and that company, and the like.

And I am not convinced, as neither are you, I'm sure, that one of them, or a manager in this situation, plays the game as many hours as you and I and many fine folks in this board do. Thus, creating a process where you have to learn all three artifacts (4 if you are a Druid?), would mean more time, however, this could easily be handled by simplifying and maybe trimming some fat from that content?

New changes, are usually OK with me. I was happy to get the Pet Charms that were previously badly nerf'd, for example, and have been fairly happy for some time ... except now ... I have to go cry ... no pets to use the charms on ... and I can't even blame Kiella for my luck!

Bahh humbug!

[Badpathing]

I'm really struggling with why so many people are so upset by a few of the new pets. It feels like they've created this random artificial constraint on their pet collecting (perhaps something like: I must collect every newly-created pet that doesn't require real-life money), and are then so upset when they can't meet it that they are ready to leave pet collecting or even the game entirely. I understand if you find leveling new characters or pvping so odious that you'd rather not collect these pets. I understand if you have a demanding job or young children or other time constraints that may prevent you from collecting these pets. But what I don't see is how these pets are any different from any other pets we all already exclude from our collections (whether regional, no longer obtainable, only obtainable for huge sums of money on Ebay, etc.)?

It's not like there are no longer wild pets or pets purchasable with pet charms or reputation pets, etc. There is still plenty of easily accessible content. What is the harm in having more difficult/less accessible content as well?

I feel like it's starting to seem like every time a new pet comes out that requires anything other than pet battling or extremely easy "outside" activities, people complain. Yet all these other pets that are more challenging to acquire provide content so that those of us with a fair amount of free time to devote to pet collecting have something to do at times such as now when we would otherwise just mainly be waiting around for the new pet dungeon in the new patch.

I am truly sorry that some of you are discouraged or disheartened by the requirements to collect a few of the new pets, but please at least consider that for some of us others, more content is better than less.

So. Much. This.

I couldn't agree more. It's a problem that people have these self-imposed constraints, or views of how pet collecting should be. There is no contract, there is only a healthy population of diverse players with diverse likes and dislikes.

I like the hard-to-get pets. No. I LOVE them.

[Badpathing]

@Kiella

For the record, you are the voice of reason here. I agree 100% with your sentiments, and have said similar things in the other class pet thread; you just said it better.

Even your absurd example, in some ways, appeals to me. Even though I'm not a mythic raider these days, certainly not a server first type, it fascinates me to imagine a pet that rare.

The AP grinds are not bad. Leveling alts is not bad. If you (the royal you) don't like it, then don't do it. It's that simple. All I hear in these threads is whining over change. Who said change isn't going to happen?

It happened to raiders.
It happened to pvp.
It happened to pve (world quests, etc)
It happened to transmog.
It happened to..... you get the idea.

So why then, does everyone in this forum who is whining think that pet collecting should be different?

I welcome the diversity and the challenge. Bring it on I say.

*edit* people actually were upset about the Trashy grind? I literally joined a raid in group finder and fished my way to the pet, the mount, the fishing bobbers and exalted in about 2.5 hours. That's insane that people are upset about that.

*one more edit* I was also thinking about your comment regarding developer maybe NOT thinking about hardcore pet collectors when making the decision; seems viable to me. How do you think hardcore pvp'ers feel about non-pvpers gaining prestige through warden towers?

[Adumbledore]

@Kiella

The AP grinds are not bad. Leveling alts is not bad. If you (the royal you) don't like it, then don't do it. It's that simple. All I hear in these threads is whining over change. Who said change isn't going to happen?

So why then, does everyone in this forum who is whining think that pet collecting should be different?

Who's whining? I haven't seen anyone whine either for or against the current conditions. Maybe I read it differently than you do? *shrug*

*one more edit* I was also thinking about your comment regarding developer maybe NOT thinking about hardcore pet collectors when making the decision; seems viable to me. How do you think hardcore pvp'ers feel about non-pvpers gaining prestige through warden towers?

Who else do you think is going to go through *all* of that for pets other than hardcore collectors? Based on the current conditions for earning these pets, I think it's pretty clear that those are the exact people they are targeting. They're just going about it in a roundabout way. Sure, eventually most DKs will have met the requirements and get the pets, but that could potentially take months, if not years. As was pointed out, hardcore collectors are very few and far between. I would hope that the devs didn't create these pets just so they can sit for that long until a fair amount of people can use them. If they did, then what a waste of time.

[Badpathing]

Who else do you think is going to go through *all* of that for pets other than hardcore collectors? Based on the current conditions for earning these pets, I think it's pretty clear that those are the exact people they are targeting. They're just going about it in a roundabout way. Sure, eventually most DKs will have met the requirements and get the pets, but that could potentially take months, if not years. As was pointed out, hardcore collectors are very few and far between. I would hope that the devs didn't create these pets just so they can sit for that long until a fair amount of people can use them. If they did, then what a waste of time.

lol..sorry....years? Do you perhaps have some sort of, I don't know; rational information to back these claims?

Who are you to presume who does what? I just did looking for raid on my hunter this evening and boosted my SV weapon from 0 - 30. In one evening.

Sorry, the grind is basic, and your argument is presumptive and silly.

These 'facts' people keep using are ridiculous. "hardcore collectors are few and far between", "only hardcore collectors could possibly want the pets", "most dks will meet the reqs". Seriously, do you even read what you type? You have literally nothing to back these claims.

You may not like my perspective but at least I'm not assuming my view of the game onto every other person playing around me.

Just for a moment, try to imagine that not everything put into the game, is for you. Even if it's a pet. Yes, I know, the mind staggers.

[Quintessence]

This topic is a highly divisive one, but whether you agree with someone else or not, let's try and keep the discussions civil and friendly.

lol..sorry....years? Do you perhaps have some sort of, I don't know; rational information to back these claims?

Who are you to presume who does what?

I think it's entirely possible and reasonable that it may take some collectors years to collect these pets. Some people don't have time.

These 'facts' people keep using are ridiculous. "hardcore collectors are few and far between", "only hardcore collectors could possibly want the pets", "most dks will meet the reqs".

I don't think Adumbledore was claiming to present any facts, and was merely stating their point of view in a general sense.

I agree that relative to the rest of the WoW population, hardcore pet collectors make up a much smaller community.

[Adumbledore]

Who else do you think is going to go through *all* of that for pets other than hardcore collectors? Based on the current conditions for earning these pets, I think it's pretty clear that those are the exact people they are targeting. They're just going about it in a roundabout way. Sure, eventually most DKs will have met the requirements and get the pets, but that could potentially take months, if not years. As was pointed out, hardcore collectors are very few and far between. I would hope that the devs didn't create these pets just so they can sit for that long until a fair amount of people can use them. If they did, then what a waste of time.

lol..sorry....years? Do you perhaps have some sort of, I don't know; rational information to back these claims?

Who are you to presume who does what? I just did looking for raid on my hunter this evening and boosted my SV weapon from 0 - 30. In one evening.

Sorry, the grind is basic, and your argument is presumptive and silly.

These 'facts' people keep using are ridiculous. "hardcore collectors are few and far between", "only hardcore collectors could possibly want the pets", "most dks will meet the reqs". Seriously, do you even read what you type? You have literally nothing to back these claims.

You may not like my perspective but at least I'm not assuming my view of the game onto every other person playing around me.

Just for a moment, try to imagine that not everything put into the game, is for you. Even if it's a pet. Yes, I know, the mind staggers.

*shakes head* I'm just going to say that I agree to disagree and leave it at that. It's apparent that you're going to take issue with anything anyone says that contradicts your opinions, so I'm done.

This topic is a highly divisive one, but whether you agree with someone else or not, let's try and keep the discussions civil and friendly.

lol..sorry....years? Do you perhaps have some sort of, I don't know; rational information to back these claims?

Who are you to presume who does what?

I think it's entirely possible and reasonable that it may take some collectors years to collect these pets. Some people don't have time.

These 'facts' people keep using are ridiculous. "hardcore collectors are few and far between", "only hardcore collectors could possibly want the pets", "most dks will meet the reqs".

I don't think Adumbledore was claiming to present any facts, and was merely stating their point of view in a general sense.

I agree that relative to the rest of the WoW population, hardcore pet collectors make up a much smaller community.

This.

[Badpathing]

Actually, the only thing I take issue is with people using baseless claims and speaking in hyperbolic generalities when trying have a discussion.

I'm more than happy to talk about this topic, or any other regardless of whether or not my position is the minority. Quint has made a lot of good points, and I can even see myself being OK to some degree with some of the compromise she has suggested. It's not the way I would do things, but I can certainly empathize with different perspectives; so long as they are reasonable.

I also realize what I label reasonable is a subjective thing; that's the nature of discussions. However, there is nothing reasonable about making blanket statements without even a shred of data to back them.

[Milotha]

My 2 cents on this.

I think some of the pet collectors are completionists. Having pets that are very hard to get or requiring them to do difficult tasks or tasks outside of their interests irritates them because it forces them to do things in game they have no interest in doing or actively dislike. In someways this is their own induced hell. I myself fall into this group, but I try to remind myself that it just doesn't matter. The problem is this can turn into a slippery slope. Eventually you have gotten the easy pets and all that is left are the really hard ones you don't want to do or the ones you have given up on. I didn't get X pet, I didn't get Y pet, I can't get Z pet, so why bother trying to collect them, my collection will never be complete. Now I am stuck doing X task that I hate. Screw it I'm outta here.

For me, I have quit raiding due to the time commitment and the drama associated with it. I have quit pvping because of the toxicity of the environment at times. I don't play as much as I used to, so I couldn't get all my toons leveled and do a lot of things with them. I took up pet collecting because it was a casual fun, goal oriented thing I could do in game that didn't require these other tasks. It was a task more isolated to farming old content, doing wild pet battles, and doing daily pet battles. Self contained. Now it seems like there will be pvp pets I won't get, and alt class pets I won't get, and some hard achievement pets I won't get (looking at you Lagan). It's not enough incentive to get me to do those things, so I just have to accept I won't get them.

I just hope that they don't start putting really powerful pets behind this stuff I don't want to do. Thus forcing me to do it if I wish to continue collecting and pet battling. I will probably be done then.

[Wootzy]

Exactly this. Thank you Milotha, for reading my mind.

[Peterc]

I just hope that they don't start putting really powerful pets behind this stuff I don't want to do. Thus forcing me to do it if I wish to continue collecting and pet battling. I will probably be done then.

Now it would put the 'cat amongst the pigeons' if a pet gated behind a 'serious grind' was really powerful in PVP.

Peterc

[Desi]

Actually, the only thing I take issue is with people using baseless claims and speaking in hyperbolic generalities when trying have a discussion.

I've found your posts to be quite aggressive considering the topic at hand.

[Badpathing]

Actually, the only thing I take issue is with people using baseless claims and speaking in hyperbolic generalities when trying have a discussion.

I've found your posts to be quite aggressive considering the topic at hand.

ok

[Badpathing]

I took up pet collecting because it was a casual fun, goal oriented thing I could do in game that didn't require these other tasks. It was a task more isolated to farming old content, doing wild pet battles, and doing daily pet battles. Self contained.

I'd like to point out that the notion of a pvp pet (arena murky), difficult content pve pets (current content raid drops) and even event-based pets like Tyreal, CE pets, etc, are certainly not NEW ideas and I don't really see the new class pets as breaking any sort of mold.

In fact, they are directly attainable. You don't have to rely on RNG for a pet to drop from a boss, or a WQ cache..or..well anything RNG.

So while it might not be an 'easy' direct route, it's at least .... well... directly attainable I guess? And you can farm it as old content in future expansions; all of those WQs and raids that reward AP will most likely still do so, and be easier.

I simply don't see the problem.

The greatest irony of this all is that so many people were griping about content droughts, and now that Blizz has opened the fire hose the complaint has evolved to "I'm drowning".

[Peterc]

[quote="Badpathing]
The greatest irony of this all is that so many people were griping about content droughts, and now that Blizz has opened the fire hose the complaint has evolved to "I'm drowning".[/quote]

IF 'content drought' was a legitimate gripe then surly 'I'm drowning' is also one. The fire hose rate could need adjusting.

Peterc

[Milotha]

I took up pet collecting because it was a casual fun, goal oriented thing I could do in game that didn't require these other tasks. It was a task more isolated to farming old content, doing wild pet battles, and doing daily pet battles. Self contained.

I'd like to point out that the notion of a pvp pet (arena murky), difficult content pve pets (current content raid drops) and even event-based pets like Tyreal, CE pets, etc, are certainly not NEW ideas and I don't really see the new class pets as breaking any sort of mold.

In fact, they are directly attainable. You don't have to rely on RNG for a pet to drop from a boss, or a WQ cache..or..well anything RNG.

The only one of these that is valid is the arena murky that was long gone before I started. There have always been real world money pets that I could get if I choose to spend the money on them, I was addressing the fact that pet content was mainly soloable. But currently raid drops can be bought off the AH, so they are soloable per see.

Pet collecting was independent of the class you played, pretty much. Now it isn't. So people who are completionists are forced to play a class they may not enjoy or have time for.

It's not the end of the world, it's just another pet you have to decide if it's worth that investment or if you can make that investment, and I guess people are saying - no. Blizzard isn't getting me to try this class just for the pet. It just ticks off the completionist in them. Like a glaring flaw in a piece of work you wanted to perfect... It sits there taunting you. They haven't made peace with it yet. Similar to Vanilla Collectors Edition pets. I turned it down at the time I purchased this game. Now I so want that Polar Bear.

So while it might not be an 'easy' direct route, it's at least .... well... directly attainable I guess? And you can farm it as old content in future expansions; all of those WQs and raids that reward AP will most likely still do so, and be easier.
.

It's kinda sad if my approach to current content is always just wait until next expansion. Though I am wondering how the world scaling will work for these zones. Maybe they will always be at level. Who knows.

[Badpathing]

It's kinda sad if my approach to current content is always just wait until next expansion. Though I am wondering how the world scaling will work for these zones. Maybe they will always be at level. Who knows.

Eh, if it's sad then I am right there with you. As I dropped out of raiding and being 'hardcore' I learned to take the long view of most of my in game goals. I actually get pretty excited with a new expansion over all the 'new' old content I can solo.

[Digem]

Actually, the only thing I take issue is with people using baseless claims and speaking in hyperbolic generalities when trying have a discussion.

I've found your posts to be quite aggressive considering the topic at hand.

Anyone who disagrees with his view on this he shouts down they have baseless qualms. It is kinda convient to make his views seem legit and opposing ones as baseless or whining.
Makes it seem like his narrow view is the only one.
So a waste of time trying to continue this discussion with him.

[Desi]

Actually, the only thing I take issue is with people using baseless claims and speaking in hyperbolic generalities when trying have a discussion.

I've found your posts to be quite aggressive considering the topic at hand.

Anyone who disagrees with his view on this he shouts down they have baseless qualms. It is kinda convient to make his views seem legit and opposing ones as baseless or whining.
Makes it seem like his narrow view is the only one.
So a waste of time trying to continue this discussion with him.

Agreed, and that is why I left my comment short and sweet. Ain't got no time for that.